Ordinary People Extraordinary Things
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Ordinary People Extraordinary Things
69. Fighting for Healthy Relationships with Dawna Hetzler
Dawna Hetzler brings her unique blend of real estate savvy and ministry zeal to our latest heart-to-heart, delving into her inspiring tale and the wisdom nestled in the pages of her book "Free to Receive." Each chapter of our conversation unravels the complexities of human connection, with Dawna’s personal anecdotes offering a beacon of light for navigating marriage and the importance of allowing ourselves the gift of vulnerability.
Delving deeper, we broach the topic of setting boundaries in our relationships. Dawna offers wisdom on the practice of what to receive, teaching us to set limits on what we allow into our lives, whether it's negative comments or burdensome tasks. She highlights how this practice not only safeguards our emotional well-being but also ensures we remain true to our values.
In the end, this episode isn't just about sharing stories — it is about the golden threads of wonderment and divine purpose that run through our life. Whether discussing relationships or personal growth, Dawna’s insights offer a compass for those navigating the high seas of life. It's a reminder that by listening deeply, setting boundaries, and embracing the art of communication, we can all craft a life story that resonates with faith, hope, and potential.
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Welcome to Ordinary People, extraordinary Things. I'm your host, nancy, and I get to talk to people just like you about real life stories, stories of faith and hope. If this podcast is helpful to you, please subscribe, please share, please give us a good rating and tell your friends about Ordinary People, extraordinary Things. Well, welcome to Ordinary People, extraordinary Things. I'm here with my friend Donna.
Speaker 2:Welcome. Thank you, nancy, for having me.
Speaker 1:It's so good to be in your presence again, I know it's been a long time, but we've known each other for many years.
Speaker 2:Yes, I don't want to date you, just many years.
Speaker 1:A long time. Yeah, I've been able to read your books and go to some of your conferences. Yes, you're an amazing realtor. I mean, we could just go on and on about your list of qualifications. Am I blushing?
Speaker 2:No, I have fun with it. I love what I do. And real estate obviously allows me the flexibility to do ministry and to speak into the lives of others and what God has gifted me to do. So it all ties together and it's good.
Speaker 1:Yes. So for someone who doesn't know you, though, what are three words or phrases that you would use to describe?
Speaker 2:yourself. Oh, that's a good question. Okay, let's see if I can narrow it to three Encourager I am an encourager, yes, I'm a sunshine girl and I'm a lover of dog kisses.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's awesome, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:Okay, so you have dogs. Yes, I have Huskies.
Speaker 1:Nice yes.
Speaker 2:Rescues and I just rescued a little three year old Husky who I was calling Mr Crinkles because he was just like Godzilla to my female and just so cranky with her and we've always had happy go lucky Huskies. So we're like oh my gosh, what did we do? We adopted this like Godzilla dog, but they've adjusted now and they're okay, so anyways. I've got Maya and Maverick and Maverick is on my new edition, so nice yeah, and you said you love sunshine.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I love sunshine, I love Colorado, I love our Rocky Mountains, but I also love the humidity of Florida. So I kind of go back and forth.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:And I've been here in Colorado for 30 years. But I'm a little over the cold and snow, especially after this last few weeks of cold temperature. So, anyways, I would prefer the sunshine, and Colorado does afford a lot of sunshine.
Speaker 1:It does have the sunshine, yes, not always the warm, uh huh yes.
Speaker 1:So I enjoy our summers here for certain people, yay, good. Well, the funny thing is that I actually wanted my first podcast with ordinary people, extraordinary things to be about marriage. Yes, and I'm into our 60s as far as episodes, and God has said no until now. So I am so excited to be having this conversation with you and I think that this is so needed. I think that there's a lot of marriages that are struggling or have struggled, and but it's also it's hard to be vulnerable in that situation For certain. Yeah, so I appreciate you saying you'd come on and talk.
Speaker 2:Of course, and you know, when I wrote for you to receive, it wasn't necessarily geared towards a marriage book, but it really has transformed into like relationships and marriage.
Speaker 2:Right, and you know how do you receive things, how do you release things, how do you block things so they don't come into your soul, and it just applies to every type of relationship that you have. But it's interesting how God has really, you know, allowed me to share my journey, and my marriage too, throughout this book and how he's used it on that platform, right, and so nice also that your husband, dave, has allowed that to be a part of it too.
Speaker 1:Right, because you can't really share His story, right.
Speaker 2:Unless he says okay.
Speaker 1:Right, right. So there's just so many facets that come into this. So we were talking about. You said free to receive, and it's a book that you wrote and if I could, I had a. I did mark it up a lot, but I came with just a couple of things that I really Good. I said this is your words. Obviously I'm hoping that through my story, you'll discover what I did a better way to know what truly matters and how to live from that place. So, like you said, even if you're not married hopefully you're not struggling I think you can still get something from our conversation. Obviously that it's not just about marriage, but relationships and and receiving and letting go and things like that. But what I loved about that is the podcast is all about faith and hope. So you're saying hope and then the stories. Obviously, that this is what it's all about is if we can tell our story, if we can share what's God doing in our life, we can help one another.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so, and that's, you know, is not the air and the grass put us on is to help each other.
Speaker 1:Yes, through this journey of life.
Speaker 2:So, yes, it's. It's all about hope and being able to, no matter where you're at in your relationship or if you have a relationship, maybe you're single and it's just working through relationships in your daily life, or maybe you're waiting to get married or you've been through a divorce or you're on multiple marriages or you're struggling in your marriage. Doesn't matter where you're at. The messages of hope and that if you can receive yourself and that's what we'll get into you first then you're able to be strong and healthy enough to journey on and have a healthy relationship. Thank you.
Speaker 1:I can see why you're a professional speaker and maybe I'm going too fast, but again, hearing your book and I'm taken from a couple pages 18 and 19 you said I had to take responsibility for my half of the muck, and then later I realized that somewhere along the line he wasn't the only one who'd given up. I'd given up on us too, and what I guess I liked about that, and you kind of already talked about it, was the responsibility, or no matter where you are most of the time, there's something that we can do, right, even if it's even if it's like I had no part in this and all of this was on me then, but there's still something that we can probably do to get ourselves out or reframe our mind, or something like that.
Speaker 2:Yes, looking at it from different lenses, for sure, and perhaps I should start with a little background about David and I and maybe that would lay some groundwork.
Speaker 1:Yeah great.
Speaker 2:So David and I are high school sweethearts. We met in high school together and we got married in 89. And we met in California and then we decided we were going to make the transition to Colorado in 93. So we moved to Colorado and he was running a framing company where he'd frame houses, and as we continue to grow and grow our businesses, he became a custom home builder. I got my real estate license and so we teamed up and we were this incredible partnership that just grew together and at the height of our career, when we had various high-end custom homes, various plots and lands to build more homes for our clientele, 2008 struck, disaster hit, and so we were stuck with all these homes and we were watching things in the economy the stock market crash and we're watching this future that we built for ourselves at a very young age slipped through our fingers like sand and as we're watching our finances and our properties slip away, as so many people did during that time, the worst part of the journey was seeing David lose his identity, and so he began to detach from life.
Speaker 2:If I'm not a builder, who am I? And I went from having this dreamer who was focused, and he was my leader. He was our spiritual leader and knew where we were going in life, and although I'm a pretty good, positive and strong personality, I knew where we were going in life too, but he was my lead in all of this, and so to watch him transform from a 200-pound man slipping to 160 pounds, just darkness filled him. That was the toughest part of the journey. So, as that stretched on, god stepped me up into a position that I never thought I was able to be in, and that's to lead not only financially and spiritually, but everything I could possibly do to help. David just didn't work in that leadership position. So then, from there, after almost a decade, my darkest hour hit in 2017, that long stretch between Christmas and New Year's when David had said I feel disconnected from you and I don't know where we stand in our marriage, and so at that point.
Speaker 1:Wow, I mean, you kind of said that, but I can't imagine the like. Oh, because you've been married for a very long time. At this point, right. I mean not just like two years or yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, so we're weighing into our marriage and so all the emotions you can imagine of anger, and just how could you do this and how could you say this, and how could we be here, and all this striving for what you know, and so it was just very it put me into a dark space, and so that kind of lands us onto your question.
Speaker 2:You know as to why I was in the spot that I was in and we found ourselves entering therapy for the very first time, and the hardest thing about that is you think that you've got this perfect relationship, you know, or high school sweethearts, and you don't want to look at the muck. That has happened over the years and while we worked professionally and we do have a great relationship, there's stuff that came in from our childhood and you know, things that we just brought both of us brought to the relationship, that we had no idea about and we just did our life together. And until you get in with a professional and really pull these things apart, we didn't know. And so we went in, I think, scared to death because we didn't know, and I had to hold our relationship in open hands, not knowing if it was going to work out, and that was very scary for both of us.
Speaker 1:Right. Did you go into marriage counseling together or separately, or how did that?
Speaker 2:work? That's a good question. Yes, we started together and then we were both so emotionally charged she had to separate us and do individual therapy and then bring us back, you know, a couple months into it. Ok, so it was quite a process of you know, about a year and a half that we really worked through things. But we had a lot of stuff as we all do.
Speaker 2:We just sometimes don't see it and I had to take ownership. You know, I went into the therapy sessions with this idea of, ok, well, david's disconnected from me and you know he's got to change it. We got to figure this out. And then, you know, I started to peel back the layers and see that I brought a lot of stuff to the relationship as well, and so I had to just fix me, because that's the only person that I can change and that's the only thing that I can do is make myself right and then see if the relationship, you know, continues from there. And so that's where we landed. Wow, yeah, that's brave it is. It is brave. I think that's a very good word to say, because so many of us don't want to go get help.
Speaker 2:And that's one of the things I talk about in the book. A free to receive is it's so hard to ask for help, even if it's just like hey, I need you to bring me dinner because I'm struggling right now or I'm not feeling well. Asking a friend to help out with dinner or to receive a compliment even the basic little stuff.
Speaker 2:So to step into therapy is like now we're really asking for some major help, Right, and that's a big, brave step as you said yeah, and to say I don't have all the answers and my marriage needs help, but also I need I need fixing as well.
Speaker 2:I need to see, I need to take a brave look. I might have a chapter. It's called Brave Enough to Peak, and if you can just start with a peak, if you can just look at yourself and hold it up in a very healthy way, and then, with the help of a therapist, they'll help reframe that how you see yourself. And so I had a lot to look at, and one of the things was some childhood giants that I brought in to my relationship, and we all have our childhood giants and sometimes their narratives, sometimes their real things that have happened to us that are very hurtful and impactful and change the whole trajectory of your whole life. But it can be small things too.
Speaker 2:So I opened my book with a mashed potato story and how that mashing some potatoes and my mom said they were lumpy, and it led to this wrong narrative that I took on as a child that I'm never good enough, and so that's one of my childhood giants is never good enough for being alone with other things that had happened with that, and I carry the blame, or it's always up to me. So I've got these things that I brought into the marriage, and so one of the first things that I would say that is vital to relationships is receiving yourself, being brave enough to peak, finding those childhood giants and identifying what they are so that when you get into a relationship then you kind of know it's like oh this is my, you know never good enough giant, like he's saying something to me and it's triggering that I get that. So now I can figure out what to do from there. So my first set of I shouldn't even say advice, because I am not a marriage expert.
Speaker 3:I have been married for 34 years.
Speaker 2:We've been together for 37, I think going steady for 37. But I will say I've just begun to learn about relationships in this last almost seven year journey now.
Speaker 2:So while I've been married a long time, I am not a marriage expert, but what I will say is that learning to receive yourself is one of the first steps, and knowing what to receive, what to release. If things have already come into your soul and we've got to let go of those childhood giants and slay those giants, or if there's things that's coming at you you haven't let it in yet, but you need to receive, not or block that, and so that's the first step is getting healthy ourselves, so then we can be the healthiest person we can be in a relationship and in our marriages, and I love that because I think it's so important.
Speaker 1:Like I think I've already somewhat said, it is, and you said it you can't change anybody but yourself, right? And no matter how much you wanted to change David and I'm sure he had things he had to work on, but I don't want to say that doesn't matter. But no matter what, like you said, no matter if your marriage was going to continue or not, you still saw that I have things I can work on to be better, right?
Speaker 2:Not initially, right, I was like, oh, we're going to fix, david.
Speaker 2:But I did see through time, like, yes, there are things that definitely I brought in and we became very fused emotionally and we fit.
Speaker 2:And so the therapist did this visual of, you know, putting your fingers together and she's like you guys are so fused together and what happens if one falls, then the other one falls, you know. So if I bring you back together, you're going to be connected, like at the thumbs, and so when one falls, the other one is strong enough to hold that other person up. And so that's what was so painful. It was like pulling us apart so that we could see what, you know, our entanglement was, and then being able to stand on our own two feet so we could help the other one up in a healthy way and no one to say I can't help you right now. I don't know why, but I can't help you. I've got to take care of me in this moment and not be so entangled. So that was quite a process. I don't want to say painful, but it felt painful to be pulled apart because I didn't know the outcome of that therapy.
Speaker 2:You know the man that I have loved for all these years. Was I going to change, or was he going to change through therapy, so much so that we didn't fit together anymore, and that was so scary to me, Nancy.
Speaker 1:So you know, I've heard that from other people as far as like, well, if I you know, you get married and then 15, 20, 25 years, we're all going to change right, and, yes, are we going to change together.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And that's the part of therapy that you work on is your own healthy self.
Speaker 2:And as you step up to these new levels in your relationship, the other person is kind of forced up or to stay put, and then you have to decide what to do, and so that was the terrifying part for me.
Speaker 2:It's like what if I don't step up, what if David doesn't step up to that next level as we're changing? But what we find ourselves in are these comfortable relationships and in these cycles that we get into, and they're just things we do to keep the peace, but it's not healthy in our relationships. So now, after all this time of working on it, I can step back and go oh, there's that old cycle, I'm getting pulled into it. It's comforting, it's easier to do that cycle and just kind of do our argument and make up and not fix anything, instead of really working on the tough stuff. And so I think many of us find us in that cycle of let's just have the argument, make up, get back to it, and then you find yourself in that same dance again, which might work for a while, right, but eventually something will happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really good. It's really good. Well, you said you kind of came knowing what you were going to talk about, and then God, changed it for you which is lovely. That's typical of him. I'm pointing at the ceiling, Like.
Speaker 2:God, you always do this to me Because I pray on. Okay, what message? Because whatever I have to say can fall flat if God's not in it, so I always pray spirit show me, and I really got to work on what is the message today that God wants for us, and I was really kind of drafting that out in my head. And then this morning God took me in a totally different direction, and so it's typical he's so wild and crazy and good and all these things.
Speaker 2:But yes, it keeps me on my toes because I am very much, as I said, a leader. I'm like, okay, here's where we're going, I'm going to see Nancy and we're going to talk about this, and that's great. And then God interjects in that and says hold up a minute. You're running ahead again which. I'm really good at running ahead of God, and so I have to remember him, so if you're running side by side with him, and so hence the conversation changed today, yeah, which is good, yeah.
Speaker 1:So what did you feel like God was telling you to talk about today?
Speaker 2:So first, that first part was receiving yourself and so just really identifying those things, being brave enough to peek, getting through your childhood giants and then, obviously, understanding that the one that you love, that you're in relationship with, also has those childhood giants. And one of the powerful things that my therapist did at one point was she. She said do you have a picture of David when he was like 10? And I said I'm sure I do somewhere. And so I found it and I brought it to therapy. And she's like when you guys are in these cycles and this dysfunction, I want you to look at that picture of him being 10. And I want you to know that he's coming sometimes from his childhood giants, from that spot of being 10. And maybe you could see him there and not you know, this powerful strongman who's coming at you with all this stuff. And she had this beautiful picture of a man and a woman and it's a sculpture, and it's a rebarbed sculpture of a man and woman sitting back to back and they're both slumped in anguish and just upset. And then inside are two glowing a little boy and a little girl, and on their backsides the kids are trying to touch hands and connect. And so the whole thought was you know, if we can just connect, if we can just see past what's going on, so identifying those childhood giants and seeing past the argument or what it is, so that you can connect with that person and get some resolution to what you're dealing with. So that was the first part that God wanted me to just share today was you know, first of all you got to get a hold of yourself and know what part of the muck you've contributed to and then kind of identify that in each other and work through that together. So receiving of yourself is the first part, and then the second part is I wanted to talk about releasing and how we release stuff and specifically releasing control, which is a tough one, I think, for a lot of us. But releasing control and having the last word, the need to be right, so kind of hopping into conversations a little bit with your spouse and marriage, and so that's a big one as well is how do we release those things and how do we kind of have those conversations?
Speaker 2:And the thing that God brought to mind this morning was I was listening to a podcast and it was John Maxwell and he's a communicator, and so I love these podcasts on communications too, and he talked about if you are speaking to an audience, the power of the pause and how to pause.
Speaker 2:And I really thought about how that applied to our relationships when we're having these heated discussions and fights about stuff and the pause and he says, if you pause, you give up control and let the audience have a moment of that control and it gives the audience a chance to kind of catch up to you.
Speaker 2:So I thought about that in our relationships and how we get into these cycles and these you know, unproductive conversations and if we just took the time to pause and release everything that we have to say, everything that we have to figure out right here, right now, let's fight it out, let's say things you know potentially that are hurtful, you know let's not do that and let's just pause and take a moment. And another thing John says is it also allows the audience, which I'm relating to my husband, to hear the whisper of God, and so that was so powerful to me. So releasing some of these things and just being present and listening to your spouse releasing that need to have the last word control, you know, whatever it is, fixing it, getting back into the cycle, whatever that looks like for you, and just pausing and letting God whisper to both of you in that moment. And what? What does that look like, does that?
Speaker 1:help. No, that's so good.
Speaker 2:Help okay.
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Speaker 1:It actually reminded me of we're talking about marriage, but then we said this pertains to any relationship and I thought of just last night I get to home school my kids, which is super lovely, but sometimes I push too far, obviously with. So I was just thinking of very specific.
Speaker 1:We're trying to get ready for a history day and they get to pick a person in history and they can dress up like that person and they become that person and they give a speech that that person did or say I'm Abraham Lincoln, I was the president of the United.
Speaker 2:You know blah blah blah, how cool is that Super fun.
Speaker 1:Yes, so my son wants to be some kind of video game maker, I was like, and then my first thought was absolutely not and actually I just said that I was like no, you know, we kind of have this obsession with video games, and no, this person is not important in my eyes and I said no.
Speaker 1:I don't want. Can you pick someone who's actually done something, you know? And I kind of went off and I was getting frustrated and he's like, well, why can't I? Blah, blah, blah. And I was just about ready to just like. I was just kind of at the end of the day, I was just done, I was frustrated and I just took a breath. I felt like I was saying not right now, like this is not something that we need to draw lines on and you're tired, you're frustrated. This is not going to come across right, even if you decide no, he can't pick this person. Now is not the time for you to have this discussion, because you're not in a good place and all you're going to do is anger your son, put distance between you over something that really doesn't matter. So I just said, okay, we're going to talk about this tomorrow, good, and so I just thought that that was funny when you're like a pause, just like okay. And how relevant that was to me in a different kind of relationship absolutely yes.
Speaker 2:Now I'm curious did he get to play the role of the video? Well, it's not still for a few weeks okay, literally last night I was like okay, yeah, this is really fresh. What happened? No, this was really fresh.
Speaker 2:No, we still have it, this is still unresolved how fun but, you had the pause, yes, which, in turn and this is not my stuff, like I said, this is john maxwell stuff, but I just brought it into the relationship stuff because it does give that moment to hear god's whisper, to hear his voice, and what you heard was not now, yeah, so that's huge. And so what might he speak into our lives in those situations? Or even if you're not in a heated situation, if you're just listening to your spouse? And I heard from somebody I thought it was very beautiful. I don't know if it's correct or not, but I apply it to god and to relationships, but like obedience to god, but I heard the word obedience and I always it's like you know, I think of my huskies when I'm training, I'm sit down, do that you know, stay.
Speaker 2:And this particular person said obedience is deeply listening, and so deeply listening to god, deeply listening in our relationships, in our marriages, and it sounds like that's what you did with your son, which is beautiful so yes so what's the next thing god told you to tell about?
Speaker 2:so the next thing is about receiving not and how not to receive things and so setting the boundaries now, doing things like, say, you're the main cook. I'm trying to think of an example on this, because it was just this morning. God threw all this stuff out this, this and that okay, good, got it. So say you're the cook. You cook for you and your husband, the family, every single night. And there's one day where you're just like I cannot do this, but you still do it.
Speaker 2:And then you start getting grouchy with your husband and you're resentful and you're kind of throwing the dishes, or he's throwing the dishes if he's the cook right. And so one of the things is setting that boundary and being able to articulate, because now you know how to receive yourself, you know things about yourself and you know when to release things and when to pause. And now you can say you know what, I don't know why, but I just cannot. I can't make the meal today, I just can't. I know I always do, but I can't. If I do I'm going to be resentful. And so let's figure out something else. And maybe, you know, the spouse comes up and says I can do it or let's go out or whatever, and that's just a very simple, you know example of it.
Speaker 2:But just being able to not receive some things. And so in my book I talk about receive not. You know there's things that maybe aren't true. You know of you where you know it's not true and you can say I'm sorry, I don't receive that, because you know I'm not a controlling person, even though I kind of am, or that is true about me. So I can receive it, but receiving not are those things that you know in your heart. I'm not lying about this. So why are you calling me you know a liar in this? Because I know I'm not lying. I can't receive that, and so knowing those boundaries of when to not receive things is just as important as when to receive things and then not receiving those things that'll break your values or make you have resentment or other things in your marriage that you just need to say I can't do that right now yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1:What I was thinking was it's really hard to receive and I think you say this in your book is it's even hard to receive a compliment. Yes, like to actually receive it instead of oh, thanks. But then we do receive things that aren't true about us. Someone says something and you you take it just to the core, even though you don't. That person really doesn't know you or you know that that's not true. But that is such a such a interesting thing about ourselves, isn't it?
Speaker 2:it is because we'll take some stuff on. That might not be true, or we don't want to confront somebody about something because we're not confronters, and so you know we'll just kind of brush past it. But then have you ever been in a spot where you get home and you're like, well, I should have said this or that's not right.
Speaker 2:You know, I can't believe I let that get past me, and you know, then then you're wrestling with it, as we're in a relationship. If you're like, well, I can respect your opinion about that, but I don't see that in me. Or if you're humble enough to say I can see I can be a controlling person, absolutely you know, then you can receive that and say okay, but I am working on it. And here's the the ways that I am working on it or if it's.
Speaker 2:You know, if David was to say you're being controlling, I know I can be, but am I in the situation, and so in a particular situation it might be, are you calling me controlling because you know I feel like I'm being lied to? That's not being controlling. That's confronting a situation you know and what you're telling me. That's different than just saying no, you can't do this or you can't do that. So, yes, being able to block the things that you know aren't supposed to go to your soul, and then being humble enough to say, okay, I can see that I can receive that and I need to work on those things. There's a difference there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you talk about this in your book. Was it hard for you to write it? Because this is very personal?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I wrestled with this quite a bit. And a lot of my friends and family were like, wow, we just we never knew.
Speaker 2:You know we just so many of us lead a private life and then others just perceive, you know, or maybe I put out there that everything's fine and it's perfect, and so everybody believes that it is perfect. But yes, it was a real struggle and a lot of tears, writing through the journey of, you know, from 2008 to 17. And still I choke up when I read the story, or talk about the story, because it was. It was a very dark space for me, nancy, in 2017. And I thought I've lost myself.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I can do ministry anymore, I don't know. I had a friend who was struggling severely and had some stuff just before all this came on in 17. And I said I can't help you right now I am. I am so lost. I thought I had everything figured out, I thought we were turning the corner and David and I had started doing some fixed flips together. He started building in 2016 again for the first time and I just I thought everything was fixed and back to normal, and then the bottom fell out. I had already thought the bottom fell out, but it hadn't. I hadn't even gotten to the point where that disconnect really illuminated. And so, yes, to answer your question, it was a real struggle on how to how to approach this, and many people were surprised.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, when you were speaking, I would just thought what you even just saying this stuff could be such a relief for somebody that's listening. Or they're like you know what, it's not my marriage, but it's this. Yes, I've gone through this and I thought, okay, we're finally there. And then, oh, and so just the hope that you're giving and also just your story. You know, you said you don't, you're not a marriage therapist, but that's okay, you're, you don't have to be, you're just telling this is what my story is, and this is what helped me?
Speaker 1:Right, right, exactly. So I'm just praying, you know, that whatever God's asked you to talk about and what we're just kind of I just said let's talk about marriage I just, I've just been praying that whatever we say is going to be life giving to somebody, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And we're all going to have dark spots in our life. There's none of us come out of this life unscathed and I, being an encourager, I want the pretty happy ending.
Speaker 3:I want a comfort.
Speaker 2:I am the biggest baby, with trials, because I just want this happy life. But in hindsight, looking back through this whole stretch, what I love most is who God's transformed me to be the person, the woman that is sitting here in front of you today, nancy. I am so much different today because of God's power and his reconciliation in me not only my marriage, but in me and stronger. And I have been a follower of Christ since I was a teenager. But I can't say that I've been this intimate with God and I would have never been this intimate with God without that journey. So, wherever you are, no matter how dark it is, god will bring forth something great in you and he will allow you to share this and to help others and to gift, you know, the gift of light. And there is light.
Speaker 2:And Psalm 139 says even though I go through the valley of the shadow of death, it's not death, it's just the valley. It's through the shadow and he will bring the light out of it. He'll bring you back on the mountaintop, he will, but that doesn't mean from there there won't be other mountains to climb and other valleys to be in. I mean, life is a journey and he's constantly transforming us to perfection, and so do I. Want everything right, yes, but it's not going to happen until I'm with Him. So am I dead yet? No, there's going to be more trials, there's going to be more things, but I can tell you and your listeners that there is so much beauty on the other side of pain. Wherever you're at, whatever the situation is God's with you. You're not alone, and he will transform it.
Speaker 1:That's beautiful. I was thinking you were talking about the Psalms and then you talked about saying a giant earlier, and I love the part in your book about David and Bathsheba. Yes, and that seemed like it was a really transformational part of your journey or maybe I just made that up. That's what I felt like when I was reading.
Speaker 2:Yes, it was because I heard the story. You know, I grew up here in the Bible story of King David and Bathsheba and I saw it in a totally different perspective. David and I had the opportunity to go to Israel in 2019. And I heard it from our sweet tour guide, maya, and she just told it in such a way that it totally transformed how I saw. I mean, like the Bible came to life in Israel. It was amazing.
Speaker 2:But, yes, I wrote a lot about King David because I learned so much in Israel about that and in Israel, as you read my book, you will see that David and I got the opportunity to renew our vows and we both had always said, oh, renewing vows is so dumb because, like, once you've said it, you've said it and that should mean everything at the time. But that was like this young, naive kid's perspective on stuff, because we had no idea how life was going to play out on God's terms, and so, as it did, we found ourselves in Israel learning all these things about the Bible characters and David and Goliath and David and Bathsheba and we came to a point where it was like, yeah, we want to do this renewal and just start over again. And isn't that what God does? I mean His mercies are new every morning. I always say in the mornings. I say His mercies are new every new dawn because my name is Dawn. So it was very transformative being there and learning about the Bible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, could you quickly tell what you learned? What perspective did you switch for that story? As far as David and Bathsheba and obviously this is kind of the big problem for David, right, is that he sees Bathsheba, she's married, he sleeps with her, she becomes pregnant and then he has her husband killed.
Speaker 2:I mean, this is oh the God, like all of them wrapped up in one.
Speaker 1:And he's still the man after God's heart.
Speaker 2:Yes, the way I saw it there and you kind of just have to be there, but the way that God revealed it to me there was that David was quick to receive God's rebuke and His love. He was quick to receive anything from God because we know God's got the best intentions for us.
Speaker 2:And so immediately when Nathan, the prophet, can you know, confront David, he's like this man is me, this is me and he immediately repented from all of it and so just being a man or woman after God's own heart and being able to receive from God, even if it's a rebuke, whatever it is, you know we know that he's got. He's got our best interest, and King David went on to do some great things, and so, no matter where you're at or what you've done, there's nothing that God can't transform.
Speaker 1:That's good, yeah, receiving God's correction and love in that, that's right.
Speaker 2:Yes, and he was, he was. It was almost like he was in a healthy mindset, even though he was so distraught about the whole situation. But after he, you know, cried and repented and fasted and did all his things and the outcome came, he was back up and like, okay, I'm ready to receive more from God and continue on this journey with.
Speaker 1:God. So yeah, I feel like you really see that and I am kind of seeing this for the first time. Is that he? I think Nathan? Nathan told them he would lose his son, right, yes, and but he like wept and wouldn't eat and everything for a long time, and then his servants were afraid to tell him that his son had actually died. And then, when he did, he's like OK, I'm eating, getting myself ready, and why? Because I guess he received it.
Speaker 2:He received it from God. He's like OK, I prayed, I fasted and please don't take my son from me and sadly that was a huge, huge consequence Like you can't even imagine. That's a tough one to take. And then once it happened, he's like OK, let's continue on. So what came to light is he was very quick to receive from God which I love. I love that characteristic about him. I would love to be that, but I run ahead, I lag behind. I argue with God because I'm Sicilian.
Speaker 1:Why can't I just OK, god, whatever you say, I'm working on it, though. No, that's good. Is there anything else you thought God was telling you?
Speaker 2:Those were the three main things that he put on my heart today. And, yeah, it's good, marriage is good. It is hard, it is difficult and we want it to be this amazing thing, full of love and intimacy and conversations and it is all of that, but it really blossoms through the hard winter of struggle and so that's been my journey and it's a good one, and I can sit here today and say God is good. He is good, no matter what else he brings coming forward, he is good.
Speaker 1:That's so good. And at the end of your book sorry, you didn't even know I was going to quote you no, you said there's always hope, so don't lose yours. Yes.
Speaker 2:And I love that. Yes, that's what I said. No matter where you're at, cling to God, cling to hope. He will transform it. And, like we talked about King David, look at the darkest of circumstances, I could compare mine to his journey and be like, ok, this is a blip compared to King David, but my journey is specific to me and what God is doing with me, just as your journey, and your marriage is specific to you and God's transforming us through it and making us better, but that doesn't even though we're different, not that we couldn't learn from one another, which I always love.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely so.
Speaker 1:One more quote from you.
Speaker 2:OK.
Speaker 1:It said, it's never too late, no matter your age, there's still time to completely become who God called you to be, and nothing is wasted, unless you choose to waste it by not opening up to receive.
Speaker 2:Yes, I have a lot of wise friends I shouldn't say older than me, wise friends. Sometimes I'll hear I'm just stuck in my ways and I've lived this way long enough and I don't want the arduous work to self-examine at this point in my life and I say, ok, but are you really receiving all that God has for you? So yes, no matter how old you are, you can always face those challenges. You can always look at things a little bit differently and in that it will help you to connect in relationships, all of your relationships. And so why not?
Speaker 3:Why not journey?
Speaker 2:Yeah, why not? I'm now working on a book about wonderment and on how do you live in that in an everyday lifestyle by looking through the lens of wonderment. And so are we missing moments with God if we aren't doing the work and looking at ourselves and connecting deeper in relationships? And so what does that look like? I'm exploring it right now.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's exciting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's fun.
Speaker 1:Well, if people want to connect with you, donnahedzlercom, correct, ok, and I'll put that in our show notes. But as we wrap up this wonderful discussion, what is your favorite Bible verse or story?
Speaker 2:I like the book of Esther, and Esther is it I think it's 414, where it says and who knows? But that you have come to your royal position for such a time as this. And we all have a royal position, don't we? I mean, god has sent us here to do something for him that nobody else can do, and so, no matter where you're at, maybe you look at your circumstance and you say this is my royal position, and who knows, maybe this trial was for such a time as this and this is going to bring such glory to God.
Speaker 1:That's good. I like that. My daughter is obviously a little obsessed with princesses.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 1:I like to tell her if you are a child of God which I know you are, and he is the king, what does that make you? That makes you a princess. That's right. That makes you a prince and that's lovely and wonderful, but it also gives us. We have a job right.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, all your son might go. I'm a prince and a video controller. Mom, let me do it.
Speaker 1:I will have to keep everybody updated.
Speaker 2:Please do. I'm excited to hear how it transports.
Speaker 1:And what are you grateful for?
Speaker 2:So many things Reconciliation. I'm grateful for my husband, my high school sweetie, for my huskies, but most of all, like I mentioned, who God is transforming me through this process, Because I love who I am. I just have a whole different look about how God is. It's not that I'm where I need to be today I haven't reached some attainment but where he has pulled me from. I'm so much stronger from that journey and I love that and I'm grateful for it.
Speaker 1:That's such an encouragement, I think, to people who are going through it right. Yeah, I love that, I love that. Well, thank you for being on today.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, thank you for letting me come and hang out with you.
Speaker 1:It's been fun and I can't wait to see how God blesses this conversation with others. Thank you, nancy. So you may be wondering what did David do for his history report? He wanted to do someone who was an inventor. That's what he was really interested in was inventing. He wants to invent things himself. So he did a little bit more research and decided to be Henry Ford for the Wax Museum for History.