Ordinary People Extraordinary Things

74. Grace not Shame with Lincoln Male

• Lincoln Male • Season 5 • Episode 74

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Have you ever stood at the crossroads of fear and faith, feeling the weight of the world on your shoulders? Our brave guest, Lincoln, guides us through these very intersections as he shares his stirring tale of early fatherhood, profound loss, and the rediscovery of grace. His voice, laced with raw emotion, paints a vivid picture of the turning point in his life that reignited his faith, which had weakened over time.

Join us on a voyage through the heart's deepest chambers where familial bonds and faith take center stage. Lincoln's story unfolds like a tapestry woven with threads of anticipation and redemption; revealing the moment he disclosed an unplanned pregnancy to his devout parents and the embrace of grace that followed. The candid chronicle of Lincoln's navigation through relationships, parenting, and the intricate dance of open communication will resonate with many. 

Through his experiences, we celebrate the courage it takes to expose our vulnerabilities and the wisdom that emerges from life's trials. So, come, gather 'round, and let's honor our personal narratives that, when shared, serve as beacons of hope and gateways to grace. Your story matters, and this conversation is a tribute to the extraordinary within the ordinary.


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We all have a story, all of us, share your story. You don't have to have the perfect answer or the perfect life - share what Jesus is doing in your life. This is an easy, real way to witness & share your testimony.


Speaker 1:

Thank you for making ordinary people, extraordinary things what it is today. Thank you for sharing. You are the best way for people to hear about ordinary people, extraordinary things, and about faith and hope and how it impacts us. Well, welcome to ordinary people, extraordinary things. I'm here with Lincoln. Lincoln, thank you for coming on.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm excited to hear part of your story. Yes, and if people don't know who you are, could you give three words or phrases to describe yourself?

Speaker 2:

Yes, the three words that I had kind of picked up on was integrity, selflessness, and, oddly enough, the one that can't leave my brain is a little bit of what I would consider maybe isolation or loneliness.

Speaker 1:

I don't know why that can't leave my head, but I feel like that's something that I Like kind of struggle with. Yes, yeah like feeling isolated or lonely. Yes, okay, like feeling isolated or lonely.

Speaker 2:

Yes, okay, and I think a lot of times it's probably me putting myself in some of those situations and not necessarily reaching out but, being more so introverted and struggling with that for a long time growing up. I saw a counselor when I was young too, because I didn't want to go to school and just trying to work through that, and I think when I get in certain situations that I don't know how to handle? I tend to just pull back, to just me. So yeah, it's probably probably where that stems from.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm introverted as well, so I can totally see what you're coming from in that respect. And you say lonely, and I just had someone on that was saying that oh, it was someone talking about homelessness and the problems like on Colfax, and she was saying that their number one problem is not really drugs or alcohol or prostitution which, yes, all those things, but loneliness, yeah. So I that one kind of blew me away.

Speaker 1:

so I think that you are not alone and like you know and I think that's good a reminder for all of us, and I'm sure all of us feel lonely at times. Yeah, yeah, I would agree.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it can be. It can be hard to reach out, but you've got to find a good group of people and surround yourself with them.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, thanks for being vulnerable with that.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

Well, we're going to talk about something that I I was so nervous to come up to you and I actually didn't even come up to you. I came up to your wife and was like okay, I don't even know if I can ask this, but I know, Lincoln, you had a daughter when you were somewhat young and not married, and I knew that. But what, what really kind of moved me and I think we'll get into this was when your father passed away, and he obviously passed away when he was pretty young and you were at the funeral, you spoke, and you spoke about this time when you told them that you were going to have a baby, and I was just so moved by that about how I guess maybe how the interaction went and it's been, it's been a few years now yeah, we just think six was this past oh my gosh, but I still think about that.

Speaker 1:

So, so thank you for coming on and talking about something that I think a lot of families, a lot of people have this in their life. So thank you for being willing to to share your story. So I guess the first question would be how did you feel when you found out you were going to have a baby, and how old were you?

Speaker 2:

So I was 20 years old 20, okay.

Speaker 2:

With a girl that I was dating. At the time, when she told me, there was a lot of, obviously a lot of emotion going through me, but probably the number one thing that I felt was fear, and I think that boils to fear of how, how I'm going to make this work, how is not only my parents going to take it? But I also sat down and talked with her parents. So having that conversation with her parents as well and figuring out this big change in my life, right, it was very unknown and I am pretty fearful of the unknown Figuring out as I get older.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and this change right. Yes, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yes, so it was fear was probably the biggest in all of that, along with trying to fear, was probably my number one. My number two was probably numb. Okay, and I think that ties a little bit back into the loneliness side of things, where I try to just numb myself, to not feel anything, and I can put a plan together in my head and say this is how I it's going to go and we're just going to go through it and I try to bury every emotion inside of me and just move along through it. But the fear was that one was hard to bury.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. So we already kind of spoke a little bit about it, but you grew up in a Christian home, correct? So what was it like to tell your parents?

Speaker 2:

To tell my parents was interesting, to say the least. So a little bit of backstory on that was. I got told that my, my girlfriend, told me the night before we left on a family vacation. Oh my, so we were going to go on a cruise with the family.

Speaker 1:

Was she coming too? She was not Okay, no.

Speaker 2:

So she told me the night before which, trying to not throw a wrinkle in the family vacation, I decided to. Initially decided to keep it to myself, and then I realized I needed to. I needed some sort of outlet, um. So I talked to my brother and sister-in-law about it and asked them to keep it quiet for me, and, but it allowed me to express it, get it off my chest a little bit, without airing it all out right there. Mm-hmm. So talking to them was after the vacation. Your parents, yes, okay, talking to my parents was after the vacation, so I had had enough time to sit down and think about how I wanted it to go. Mm-hmm, but as much as I thought about how I wanted it to go, I was not ready to have that conversation, yeah when I finally sat down and

Speaker 2:

did talk with them about it. I asked them to both come into our living room and we sat down there and it probably wasn't all that long that it took me to say something, but it felt like forever. I can vividly remember both of my parents sitting there and I was sitting on the couch just shaking and they were wondering what was up. So I finally told them that my girlfriend was expecting a child and obviously it was not a planned thing. And surprisingly enough, through it all I say surprising. It's not surprising knowing my parents, but I tend to go to the worst.

Speaker 2:

But after I told them that me and my girlfriend at the time were expecting a child the first thing mom said to me was she gave me a big hug and asked if I was okay and then asked if the baby was okay and said, asked if I was okay and then asked if the baby was okay and then she told me she loved me and my my dad was the one that I was a little more so worried about. I I actually had a bag packed on my bed waiting for him to kick you out kick me out and say this is is the path you chose, then go ahead and live that path.

Speaker 1:

You're not allowed here.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, okay, so telling him, with his response being that what he? Said was this doesn't change the way I feel about you. I still love you and that was something.

Speaker 2:

I guess I never expected For him to show me that kind of love after, like you said, growing up in a Christian household and knowing that I shouldn't be doing that before marriage. And then not only did I do that but then got a daughter out of it too. So I didn't know what to say to him. I don't think I said anything back to him at that point and he sat there and hugged me for a little while and said Okay, it's time to grow up now. Yeah, it was nerve-wracking shaking.

Speaker 2:

I think that probably been twice in my life that I can remember just sitting, sitting there shaking, and that was one of them, and the other one was at my the hospital with my dad. Yeah, it was that. I don't know how to control this emotion and I try to numb everything and I think it just just comes out.

Speaker 1:

Yes, it's gonna find its way out.

Speaker 2:

One way or another.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, yeah, I just what I love about that story is is the grace, and I just feel like and someone could say, no, that's not how Jesus would respond, but that's how I see him responding is like, I still love you, like, and I um just love that yeah, yeah, that was a big one for me.

Speaker 2:

I mean, as you know, I spoke at my dad's funeral about that, and a gentleman I followed by the name of Inky Johnson always says you know, some people don't need you to preach a sermon, they need you to live your sermon. And I think that was a big thing that dad did for me that day. It's sad to say I don't think I ever told him that. You know, I think now you know, he knows Right.

Speaker 2:

But it was by him doing that and still accepting not only accepting me, but loving me and then helping me through that process was way more grace than I ever deserved.

Speaker 1:

So many people. I feel like, when circumstances hit, they would walk away from God. How did your relationship with God change, or did it during this time?

Speaker 2:

It definitely changed. I was probably at a point in my life where I was not as close with him as I had been as the typical church-going kid since I can remember, you know we were always forced every morning wake up, go to Sunday or every typical church-going kid since I can remember you know. We were always forced every morning to wake up, go to Sunday, or every Sunday morning to wake up, go to Sunday school, go to church, do all that. So when I turned 18 and got a little more freedom and Mom and Dad weren't bugging me to hey, are you going to be at church? And I probably took advantage of that a little bit and my relationship with the Lord definitely dwindled during that.

Speaker 2:

In that dark and lonely time for me. It definitely drew me back to him in thinking that if I looked back on my life, he had always been there through the hard stuff. Now it was all the stuff prior to that was not as hard as having a child at 20 years old, but he had been there with me through it all and I could look back now being through it and saw his hand in things as my life progressed. So I figured he's bound to do the same, and so trying to grow my faith in that a little bit more too, and trusting in that and honestly not knowing where else to turn, which is I don't know if that's a good or a bad answer, but there was a part of me that was like I got nothing left. So we're going to lean on you even more and see how this goes.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so it kind of changed your relationship as in grew it, because you were kind of having to rely on God.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, rely on Him providing for me, for me and my daughter, for the relationship between me and my daughter and her mom and my daughter, for the relationship between me, my daughter and her mom, the relationship between me, my parents and her parents, and down to. You know I was working a part-time job at the time, so it's in family friends who offered me a far better job. That has helped me tremendously in my career.

Speaker 2:

He he had his way, or the Lord had his way of putting his hand in at certain times. Like I said, I could see that as I was going through it and I can see it even more now being through it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

All the little pieces that he played and the puzzle he put together there. It definitely drew me back into my relationship with him a lot more. That's great.

Speaker 1:

I want to be respectful of Raelynn, your daughter, and her mom, but did it ever come up as far as abortion, adoption, because these are definitely things that you can choose right.

Speaker 2:

Definitely things that you can choose right. So thankfully, both she grew up in a. My daughter's mom grew up in a somewhat religious household, but her and I were very. Abortion is off the table. That was never a thought for her or I. We X'd that one right away. My daughter's mom entertained the idea a little bit initially of adoption, which was something that I didn't entertain, and this was some of the back and forth that we had as we were trying to work through this. All Right.

Speaker 2:

And I do understand you know, she wanted to give our daughter the best life and the best runway for success in all of this, because she kept telling me she doesn't know how we're going to make this work. And she asked me at one point when I said I don't want to go the adoption route. She said, well, how are you going to make it work? And I said I can't tell you that I go the adoption route. She said, well, how? Are you gonna make it?

Speaker 2:

work and I said I can't tell you that that's gonna be something that I have to figure out and lean into the Lord more and see what's gonna open up.

Speaker 2:

But I personally could not live with myself knowing that I had a child out there and it was just not a good time for me, mm-hmm wasn't? I was not willing to sacrifice my daughter for poor timing on my behalf and it really took having that conversation with her mom and it's probably a day or two later that she kind of came around and said, okay, well, let's, let's give it a try then and see what we can do and make it work. But yeah, the abortion was never on the table for us. Adoption was a little bit for her, it was not for me in any of that. But we had other avenues too of actually my brother and sister-in-law when I told them that night before our cruise that was one of their questions they wanted to make sure that we were not going the abortion route and they actually offered to raise her partially, raise her help wherever they could too. So that was once again another option that we briefly discussed but it was not.

Speaker 2:

once again, I could not live with myself knowing that I chose just a what seemed at the time as an inconvenience over my daughter's life. Sure so.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and you two you and her mom decided not to marry, correct, okay.

Speaker 2:

So then you have a lot of figuring things out between right, yes, so we were together for about I can't remember how long it was in total, and it was about a month, raylan was about a month or two old when it was finally we split and went our separate ways.

Speaker 2:

Her and I were good friends to this day. Actually, all of us are. She'll text my wife now and we all just were at Raylan's parent-teacher conferences. Everybody's super nice, kind, civil. It truly has been a blessing, the relationship that we all can have. But my daughter's mom and I did not work in that regard, so we decided to end that saying Raylan should not be wondering if mom and dad are together or not. It was easier, just to make it clear cut.

Speaker 1:

Okay, that makes sense.

Speaker 2:

She'll know us as being together or she'll know us as not being together yeah.

Speaker 1:

So it was in both of our best interests to not be, and do you have any advice for someone, Because maybe it's kind of your situation, but there's a lot of divorce as well, where now we're trying to parent two different ways. Do you have any good thoughts on like hey, this has worked really well or I really recommend this for someone who's maybe struggling with this or they know they're going to start going into this phase of their life?

Speaker 2:

The biggest thing that we came to an agreeance on was if we focus on ourselves, this is going to be really hard, and if we focus on Raelynn, it's going to be very easy. Her and I both came to the agreement that we're putting ourselves aside and focusing on her. The end goal of all of this is to make sure she is happy, healthy, successful, loves the Lord, has good people setting good examples in her life. All of this.

Speaker 2:

And that, I think, is a big one and has carried us far because it is tough. She parents a little bit different than I do, sure, and you know when she comes back from mom's house we run our house a little bit different than mom runs hers.

Speaker 1:

Right, that's to be expected, right.

Speaker 2:

Yes, there is some of that. So I think that would be my biggest, probably my number one, and my biggest would be if you focus on the child, it should be easy for everybody. And then second would be probably just to pick your battles and all of that.

Speaker 2:

I know that there are battles that I did not pick with her mom, and I'm sure she has felt the same way about me in certain regards. But once again it leads back into number one that it's not about her and I. It's about Raelynn. So if you can keep her in the forefront of all of this, I think it'll set everybody up for success in that better. It's when we get our own feelings and emotions tied into it that I think it complicates things.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

But, and I will preface all of that, too with. Once again, I do have a good relationship with her mom.

Speaker 2:

It had its rocky points when I started dating my now wife. When I started dating my now wife and initially when we split up, there was some very, very trying times for us. But I had to keep reminding myself that I lean into the Lord, that he's got a plan for it, and for me and for her, and that we just need to keep her as the center of our focus and I. That's not a. It's not a battle. I want to, I want to fight. It's the old. You know the old saying would you rather be right or would you rather be happy? I would rather be happy and have my daughter be happy than for me to win an argument with her mom at any point.

Speaker 1:

That's so good, so good. Thank you for sharing that. And some of those things are like, yeah, it's easier said than done. Right, but to put that into practice, yeah, yeah, it's something I mean.

Speaker 2:

I still find myself to this day having to work on it a little bit and talk with talk with my wife or talk with a buddy of mine or something and say, hey, can you gut check me on this and tell me if I'm overreacting or my feelings are valid, but I shouldn't do anything about it. So having some outlets for that too has been good for me to let me bounce some ideas off of people to make sure I'm not just getting too emotionally tied into it Sure.

Speaker 1:

No, that's so good, thank you. And you brought up your, your wife Diane. Yes. And so what is it like to kind of start dating someone and you have a child and you're you know, know you're co-parenting with Raelynn's mom.

Speaker 2:

It was, like I said, very interesting at first. I tried to be very, very cautious of my daughter at first. She was young enough that she would not have. At this point, I think when I started dating my now wife, she was Raelynn, was, say, around a year. Oh, okay.

Speaker 2:

And I didn't want to start dating this girl and immediately bring my daughter into it. I can remember when I first started talking with my wife. It was one of the second times we were out and I had brought up that I had a child Because my child's not going anywhere.

Speaker 1:

You don't want it to be like 10th date surprise Exactly.

Speaker 2:

If you're going to go, go now and just keep this easier. So it took her. I don't want to say coming around to it, I just think it was some thought on her behalf. Right.

Speaker 2:

Because not only now is she entering into a step-parent role right off the bat, but now she knows too that my daughter's mom is going to be truly probably in our lives forever.

Speaker 2:

Right, so that was something that she was going to have to navigate as well, right, but it was once we kind of got past that things were good it was. It was hard in the sense of I always described it as I was living two different lives. The times where I had my daughter, it was me and my daughter and and our family, or just just her and I. The times I didn't have my daughter, I typically spent with, with Diane, and it it took a honestly took a toll on me mentally trying to balance both of those because I was trying to keep them separate for so long. Hmm, to make sure that once I introduced, I didn't want to introduce Raelynn to Diane until I was 99.9% sure she was the one and the only thing that would have changed, that is, if, for whatever reason, she didn't get along with my daughter, yeah, or had a change of heart and said she didn't want to step into this role, whatever it was.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

So it took a little while. I think she had seen my daughter a couple times, but we didn't really start and bring her around. For I want to say it was a year or so of us dating because I was trying to be cautious of my daughter but also, in that same regard, be respectful of her mom. And.

Speaker 2:

I could imagine and it since has happened right where on the mom's side, a male figure has stepped into the role, Right and for as ready as you think you are for that? I don't think you have the power to have somebody else act in your place in some regards. I mean, nobody will ever take the place of mom and dad, but they're playing those roles for the times that you're at at her house or at my house.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

So I just tried to be very respectful of her mom in that regard and of Raelynn, trying to shelter her a little bit from that.

Speaker 2:

So it took a little while for me to introduce her Raelynn to Diane. But once we did, I mean they clicked and they have a great relationship now. So it's fantastic. I was glad I went slow with all of that, but it was definitely tough, and I will say too, I think from the male's point of view. I don't want to say that it was easier on my behalf, but I think there's a lot more women out there who want to have kids and who can step into that role easier than men stepping into that role. I think that is something that I have seen throughout the years in all of this.

Speaker 2:

Her mom has fought that a time or two with with guys when she says, oh well, I've got a kid, and they tend to back away at that point and so I I feel, very blessed and very fortunate for, once again, how how the Lord placed Diane in my life at that right time and how she stepped into this role of being a stepmom and co-parenting with with Raylan and me and her mom.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, it's a lot of facets.

Speaker 2:

It's, you know, a lot of moving pieces and yeah yeah, there's, like I said, as much as you think you can be prepared for that. I mean there's new stuff all the time.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Between school and friends and sports. And you know my daughter's getting older now, so as she approaches teenage years, truly I'm going to have to rely on my daughter's mom and my wife to help through that, because I was never a teenage girl.

Speaker 1:

I don't know how that's going to go.

Speaker 1:

I think our children, our oldest ones, are about the same age. Yes, yeah, is Ray Lynn 10, 11? Okay, david's 10 too, and what I think she? I think they might even be just a few days apart. Now that I'm thinking about it, it doesn't really matter, but they, they're right around the same age and yeah, there's just they're. They're changing so much and, yeah, so much going on.

Speaker 1:

And I didn't plan on saying this, but I just felt like I think we both took a kind of a class on on marriage and families and everything, and and in this day of age, you know, it's like why does God put these things into place?

Speaker 1:

Why would he do all this? And it's because he knows how we work, and not that he hasn't, like, brought you through with Ray Lynn and everything. But there's a lot of extra steps maybe that make it a little bit, maybe a little bit more challenging than if you know, and not that all things aren't challenging. So maybe I should just cut that out. But you know, I was just thinking, like we're already about talking to, like our kids about you know sex and you know being married and you know sex and you know being married and one you know, and it's just I think that God knows that, like I love you and I have, like I love you and we are gonna get through this, but there there are some extra steps now because, because of that, is that safe to say, yes, right, am I? Am I being totally out of bounds?

Speaker 2:

okay, and I I think that's something that every, every parent at some point will face mm-hmm or, in my eyes, should face it's hard conversations with your kids, mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

I don't remember where but when I was reviewing for this I I wrote that in my eyes should face is hard conversations with your kids I don't remember where, but when I was reviewing for this I wrote that down somewhere of get comfortable with having those hard conversations. I had a lot of conversations with my dad that I look back on and I don't think they were necessarily hard conversations. I don't know if they were because he's a male, I'm a male. We had that connection, father-son connection. I remember at one point my mom talking to us.

Speaker 2:

She talked to us about sex and pornography and other stuff like that and I remember feeling very awkward in that because that wasn't something that wasn't something that was talked about Um so I think, like you're saying, if we can have those conversations early, um, obviously, at the appropriate time, right and in the appropriate way, but to have some of those hard conversations, because another step that you will never have to face which I will is at a certain point. I will explain everything to Raelynn about me and her mom. She has asked a time or two of why we can't live together.

Speaker 2:

Why is mom doing this now and we're doing this, and she asked at an age, that I did not feel was appropriate for me to truly give her a good answer. Um, so I kind of just said well, this is the way things are and we can talk about it when you're older, but that'll ultimately be a conversation that I have with her. Like I said, I'm open book, trying to be clear on all of this, and I will have to sit down and tell her what, what happened with us yeah just so she could understand.

Speaker 2:

She can have clarity in that and know, know the background of it all. Right, maybe get some closure in her life in that. Now, all that to be said. You know was very, very young. This is all she's ever known. But, I think as she's gotten older and seeing kids whose parents are together, it's stirred up some questions in her. So I think having those conversations is going to be critical to their growth, but also how close you want to be with your kids too, right, right right and I was just.

Speaker 1:

I was just thinking of having these conversations but not having shame, and I hope that I've never, ever made you feel that with any words that I've said today. But I I can see that being something, because I think that's something the devil really uses really well. For us is shame God doesn't love you anymore. You did something that you weren't supposed to. I don't want to. I don't know if I'm saying the right words.

Speaker 1:

I'm so sorry but like now, now there's shame involved and I think that do you have? Do you have? Have you ever felt that, or yeah?

Speaker 2:

yes, I think the older that I've gotten, it's, it's, it's definitely gotten better. Mm-hmm, it was very hard initially. We touched on having the conversation with my parents, with her parents. One of the hardest things, I think too, was bringing her to church, you know, in a place where, I mean, I grew up in this church and was taught not to have sex out of wedlock and how the Lord wants us to live, and that was something that I didn't live up to and got a daughter out of. And then to bring her into this place was hard for me and I anticipated, I think, a lot of judgment which caused me to feel more shame. In all of that and all that to be said, I truly cannot remember a time where anybody ever shamed me for doing this.

Speaker 1:

I'm so glad to hear that and I'm so glad you brought that up, because I feel like that was kind of one of my questions. You can be like okay, I guess I'll just walk away from faith, I'll just walk away from church, and I think that that, if I can be so blunt, is that is not God. Yes, that is not God, like he always is, like running after you and like come back like I love you and that's why I just, I just can't get over like how your dad said that, like sorry it's tough, he was, he was a he's a great example of that for me, and I think that was, and there's another, I think truly, that was another thing that pushed me back into the Lord.

Speaker 2:

Right is if I can, if I can get this kind of grace from a man who my dad didn't. He didn't know me anything, like I said I was. We had had that talk before and I fully expected for him to kick me out.

Speaker 3:

But for him not only to believe that, but to live.

Speaker 2:

That made me look at Christ in a whole other way too. Of man like this is we're all sinners, right, this is a sinful man that can give me grace. What kind of grace can I get from God, you know? And what kind of healing can I get from him? And, like you said, I love that analogy of him just running after us.

Speaker 1:

I know yeah.

Speaker 2:

I'd be honest and say there's probably times that I've run the other way and at least it feels like that, or don't know what to do. Or he's just saying come here, and I'm like I'm standing still because I don't know what to do, but he's still standing there with his arms open wide waiting for us.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, oh, that's so good, thank you, standing there with his arms open wide waiting for us. Yeah, yeah, oh, that's so good, thank you, and I'm so glad that you shared all that with us. And I feel like there's parts of our lives that we can easily hide from people, and then there's parts that we can't, and maybe it's better if we can't, you know, because then the light is there, the shame like there is. There's no shame like, and I'm so glad that that that, and I I guess I'm already praying over Raelynn that she would never feel shame, you know, and because I think that that's it's just a way to distance ourselves from others and from God.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I agree, and I don't think she has ever felt that way. At least she's never expressed that to me or her mom.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Which is good. Yeah, that's what we want and, like you said, with taking, there is a certain point of that right. Having a child is not something people can hide addiction and people can hide doubt or whatever Right or judgment or gossip or like.

Speaker 1:

there's so many things that you can be like. Yeah, I'm good at hiding some of those things that I struggle with, right, right.

Speaker 2:

Hiding a child is not one of those things. So it was something that I once again just had to kind of lean in and say, okay, this is shame or no shame. This is what it is.

Speaker 2:

I was able to ask the Lord for strength and courage and all that and said if people want to judge me for me sticking around for my daughter, then I'm going to let them do that, but in my heart I know that was the right thing to do and I love my daughter. I can't imagine life without her now. I can't imagine life without her now. It was very trying, but it was one of those things that was just. Here we go, let's rip the Band-Aid off and get it out in the open and say what you want to say and we'll move on.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. Well, she's lovely. I just love your daughter. She's a sweetheart. Yeah, she is. What advice would you give to young kids today, or to parents with young kids? That's kind of a huge question.

Speaker 2:

Well, I think that's probably what I was talking about having the hard conversations, just because I think that is so critical, not only for kids to see those conversations and to experience them at that age, but I think it's also such a vital skill going forward, having some of those hard conversations young and, like you said, not feeling shame in those conversations, learning how to navigate those and how to navigate our feelings, and all of that. I think it also sets a great example for the kids too. Actually, me and my wife, when we did premarital counseling, one of the things they talked about was we talked about fighting in front of the kids. I was like, oh, that's you know, in my head I'm like that's something we should never do, and this and that.

Speaker 3:

And he said well, there is a way to do that, and it's okay, because then it models for your kids how to have dialogue when there's conflict involved and that was something that just kind of sat heavy with me of okay.

Speaker 2:

Yes, it's not something we should do every day.

Speaker 2:

But we're not neither my wife or I are like yellers or big fighters, so her and I can have a conversation in all of this and still model that good, respectful behavior for our kids. So I think that was a big one. And then trying to create. Another thing I've struggled with throughout my entire life was just confidence in me, confidence in yourself.

Speaker 2:

I would love nothing more than for my kids to never have issue with confidence, and I think, as parents, there's such a responsibility in such power we hold, and speaking that into our kids and then them leaning into the, their relationship with the Lord and him. Speaking that into them as well and knowing that they are, they are a child of God. They are here for a purpose and for a reason and nothing's gonna change that. No, no stumble or fall or having a child that 20 years old is gonna change the fact that the Lord loves us, he wants a relationship with us. I know who I am in my core and in my soul and and that was something that truly, when that happened and I felt like all the walls were down for me that was where I drew back to was what's in your who?

Speaker 1:

God says you are yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I think those would probably be my big two.

Speaker 1:

Those are so good, wow, so good. Is there anything else you'd like to share that you felt like, hey, I really wanted to say this, that's a great question.

Speaker 2:

Making sure my daughter's the number one priority in all of that has saved a lot of heartache on my behalf, her mom's behalf and my daughter's behalf in a lot of that regard, Because I think people take for granted I had a conversation with the lady who cuts my hair. This was something that she found a condom in her son's room, and she then had that conversation with him and I said, man, until you're in that spot.

Speaker 2:

You don't understand how much it affects you Between having the child, which is the biggest, and now having to provide for the child in health care, and if you're not together, you're splitting households. Provide for the child in health care, and if you're not together, you're splitting households and you know through at least 18, if not the entirety of their lives, and that's all like the simple stuff you know. Then you throw sports and taxes and relationships that your kids will then have and you know all this other stuff into it that it is. It is something that is truly maybe easier to see from an outsider standpoint. I just think there's so much more that goes on in all of that. That's it. Like I said, that's just. It's a big focus of mine, just to keep her in the forefront. I think that will negate a lot of issues going forward.

Speaker 2:

Hopefully it does, and truly relying on the Lord for that my family stepped up in a huge way to let me work full time and my mom could watch Ray Lynn when she was young and my sister-in-law helped watching her, and I mean it's easy for me to look back, like I said, going through it now, and find all the pieces where I was. God steered me in the right, the right way and definitely showed that he was there with us throughout it all, providing for all of us. It was something that drew me back closer and it's baffling to see him move. We can't always see it while we're going through it.

Speaker 2:

but once you've gone through it you can look back and see it pretty clear yeah his goodness in it.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes. Well, I just appreciate your story, I appreciate you being vulnerable about it and I think there are so many people that are going through different situations of this or you know me, with having two kids as well but I think, no matter where you are, I think we can learn something from your story and some things that you shared were just so very good. But I do wanna say if I said anything that was rude or came across as rude, I do apologize to you or anyone who's listening. That is like you used the wrong word and I do apologize for that, because I think I did not mean to. But I think sometimes you can't like you know, like sometimes a word comes across and it hits someone differently.

Speaker 1:

You know, like oh, that, that actually brought this up for me and I can't, you know, believe you said that. So I do want to ask for some some grace with that. But as we wrap up, I always love to kind of end with some questions what is your favorite bible verse or story?

Speaker 2:

uh favorite bible verse is.

Speaker 2:

I got it written down because I knew I was gonna. I'm gonna stumble over it, which is sad. Uh, isaiah 41, 10. Which is uh, do not fear, for I am with you, do not be dismayed, for I am your god. I will strengthen you and help you, I will uphold you with my righteous hand, and I think that was one. My brother actually had it written on his wall growing up and it was one I kept going back to and I love the positivity in that.

Speaker 2:

And as I've gotten older and our pastor has talked through the endurance of things, you know, god's not always we like to paint him as the deliverer of everything, and sometimes he just needs us to endure it. And in that he says he will strengthen and help us. He's not going to take away our burden, but he will always be there to help us. That was a big one of mine. And then I stumbled across a story too. It was talking, oddly enough, about Judas the Last Supper and somebody who had gotten a tattoo that said Judas ate too. And the overarching theme of that story was the Lord knew he was going to betray him, he was going to walk away from him, yet he still fed him. He broke bread together, he shared this last supper. He washed his feet and that's a grace. I feel like. I mean I didn't turn over the Lord to be crucified, but I had steered away from my walk with him and it was something that I think he knows everything.

Speaker 1:

He knew you would right yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yet he still chose me and chose to have a relationship with me, and that's something that I like. I said it's grace that I don't deserve.

Speaker 1:

That's good. I don't have any biblical thing to share as far as what I'm going to say, but I truly believe that if Judas had repented, God would have forgave him, Because we see that Peter literally denies Jesus three times and that is not okay for us to ever deny Jesus right, and he does it three times after he's told he'll do it three times, but he repents and God forgives him and he does mighty things for the Lord. And so I don't know I think that's just something that keeps coming back to me sometimes when I hear of Judas is like you just had to repent, you just had to come back.

Speaker 2:

Like he would have taken you back, Like yeah, so I don't know how that came up, but what are you grateful for, grateful for my family, immediate family and extended family and a good church to call home and everybody's happy and healthy? I think that's something that I struggle at times being positive, and that's something that my wife has been picking at me for good in things, and you know I took my kids on a walk and we went play at the park the other day and all the worries I had throughout the day seemed to just go away. You've got a beautiful day outside, sunshine and kids are running and laughing. I think if I've got that, I feel like I'm doing pretty good. I'm pretty thankful for that.

Speaker 1:

I have a tendency to be pessimistic too, so that's actually one of the reasons I always have people say this is it's a good reminder to keep being grateful, and this is a question we started a little bit later in our podcast, but again, I think it's a reminder for me and for everyone about kindness what kindness have you received in the last week, or what kindness did you give?

Speaker 2:

What kindness have you received in the last week or what kindness did you give? I have a good buddy of mine from high school. Him and I have kind of set up some reoccurring meetings. That's just him and I touch base. He had just gotten married a couple months ago and they're talking about kids, and so he's looked at me for a lot of advice in some of that regard. He's further along in his career, did more schooling than I did. He's got advantages in certain ways there that I pick his brain on.

Speaker 2:

But, he has been a big player in my life and he's an eye doctor. He works with the National Guard and then he's serving on a board or volunteer team for eye doctors that he's the president of and, being a newlywed, so he's got a bunch of stuff going, but every Thursday he carves out time for him and I to sit down and talk oh nice. So I think that's a good way for me to help him out, and then I think he also helps me out, and I think that's something that I see as being very kind on his behalf is him taking the time to actually sit down and do that and talk through these with me and let me pick his brain and work through some of my thoughts with him.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's so good. Yeah, it's been good. That's awesome. Well, thank you for being on, thank you for sharing your story, and I'm praying that it will just impact those who are listening Absolutely. Thank you for being on, thank you for sharing your story, and I'm praying that it will just impact those who are listening.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

Thank you. Thank you for listening to Ordinary People, extraordinary Things, where your story is His glory. If you found this helpful, please share it with a friend, find us on social media and give us a five-star rating on any platform that you're listening to.