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Ordinary People Extraordinary Things
82. Carrie Gutierrez Finds Joy and Community with MS
After a season of relentless migraines and unsettling numbness, Carrie discovered she had multiple sclerosis (MS). With raw honesty, Carrie talks about her fears and confusion, especially as a single mom with heavy responsibilities, and how she can now say, “I am grateful for the story God has given me.” The critical importance of community support is underscored, from practical help to emotional encouragement, and we delve into how to build meaningful relationships even when it feels daunting.
We also highlight the importance of expressing emotions authentically within a faith community. Through the lens of the Book of Psalms, we talk about how God welcomes a range of human emotions, stressing the importance of not staying stuck in negativity. Carrie shares how the story of Abraham and Isaac has shaped her understanding of faith and obedience, providing a powerful backdrop for our discussion. Her personal testimony serves as an inspiring reminder of God's faithfulness, encouraging listeners to reflect on their lives and deepen their reliance on God.
✨ “I used to be afraid to share my story & my testimony, but then I realized it’s not my story - it’s God’s.”
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Welcome to Ordinary People Extraordinary Things. I'm so glad you're here. I'm your host, nancy Brucher, and I get to talk to ordinary people just like you about real stories, stories of faith and hope, star rating or write a review. This really helps other people find Ordinary People Extraordinary Things, but also if they see a review or five stars, they know it's worth their time. Thank you so much for helping us out with that. All right, welcome to Ordinary People, extraordinary Things. I'm here with my friend, carrie Carrie. Thank you for being on.
Carrie Gutierrez:Oh, thank you so much, Nancy, for giving me the opportunity to be here.
Nancy Bruscher:Oh, I'm so excited that you are here. If you don't know Carrie, you should, and she is just a light, like truly a light, just always smile and radiating Jesus. So if you don't know her, you have to, and if people don't know you, could you give three words or phrases to describe yourself?
Carrie Gutierrez:Sure. So people say that I'm encouraging, which I do hope that that is true. I do feel like God has placed that on my heart to encourage others and remind them of who they are in him. I'm also a very passionate person, for better or for worse. I don't do anything halfway so once I have my mindset on something.
Carrie Gutierrez:I can be pretty hard-headed through it and and I'm also a very loyal person. If you are somebody in my life that I care about, I will do pretty much anything to make sure that you feel loved and cared for and supported.
Nancy Bruscher:See, and that explains why you just radiate this light and this kindness wherever you go. Oh, that's kind of you. So we are talking about a story that God's given you, that I wish he hadn't, but I'm so glad that you have the bravery to talk about it. When did you find out that you had MS?
Carrie Gutierrez:Yeah, I found out a year ago, in August. Oh, okay, so just a year ago. Yeah, yes, it's been pretty recent, though we suspect symptom-wise I've had it for a couple years. Before that I had a migraine for about four days, which I've had migraines before, so that part didn't shock me, but the duration did seem a little off. Then I woke up with about a quarter-sized patch of my thigh that went completely numb Because it was so small. I thought, well, that's weird, I'll keep an eye on that. The next day it seemed a little bit bigger.
Carrie Gutierrez:The following day I woke up and from my waist down on my left hand side and my right foot had gone completely numb. And so I thought, well, maybe now I should go get this checked out. So I went to a couple urgent cares and they all told me you need to go straight to the ER. So I did and they said, well, maybe a pinched nerve, we're not really sure, let's take a look. So they were just going to originally do an MRI of my lower spine and about five minutes before got intervened and the doctor came in and said I think we should also check out your brain and see what that looks like. And so they did the MRI, and only because they did the brain MRI as well did they realize that there were lesions that indicated multiple sclerosis, in which case, then, they did a spinal tap and found something called monoclonal bands, which also identifies damage happening.
Nancy Bruscher:So MS means multiple.
Carrie Gutierrez:It's a mouthful, yes. Multiple sclerosis Okay, yes.
Nancy Bruscher:And I feel like it's a word that people are like oh, I see that that's bad, but what does it mean?
Carrie Gutierrez:I had the same question when I was diagnosed. Basically, what it is is it causes damage, either scarring damage or inflammation, in three areas of the body, which is your optic nerve, your brain and your spinal cord. It can happen in all three areas, just two one. But it is a chronic, lifeline illness with no cure at this time. There are three different types. So one type is relapsing, remitting, which means that you have clear, defined periods of damage and in between those periods you either partially recover or fully recover. Then there's secondary, progressive, which means that you started with relapsing, remitting, but have now moved on to just progressing slowly with no clearly defined areas of damage. And then primary progressive would be just from the get-go, you just kind of seem to go downhill, disability goes up and there's really no clearly defined area of where that damage is occurring.
Nancy Bruscher:Okay, and have they been able to pinpoint what you have?
Carrie Gutierrez:So not entirely, we suspect. With MS, there is no way to diagnose which type you have. It's really just based on progression and what they see. Okay, since I'm so new to my journey, we don't quite know yet. We suspect, thankfully, that I probably have relapsing remitting currently, although there is a possibility that I'm on the cusp of secondary progressive. But we don't know. So we're just keeping an eye on MRI and symptom progression.
Nancy Bruscher:Okay, yeah. So at first you needed to know what those words mean. But what else did you feel?
Carrie Gutierrez:I was terrified originally. I remember being in the hospital for three days and having a lot of time with myself and the Lord and thinking, god, what are you doing? You know my story. I'm a single mom. I work more than four times. I have three kids who all have doctor's appointments and school and activities. At this point I can barely get out of bed and make it to the restroom. How am I supposed to provide for my kids? How am I supposed to work drive? So many questions I had in my head and I just thought, god, why would you allow this to happen to me?
Carrie Gutierrez:But he has been so good and then over this last year has really showed me that there is so many blessings that have come out of this.
Carrie Gutierrez:He has taught me what it means to rely on others, which is something that before I lived a very isolated life and thought that was a good thing. And I'm realizing what a blessing it is to have people in your life who care about you, who are there for you and not just for me, but my kids. They get to watch that and be loved on other people who choose to have them in their life. And so over the last year there are still a lot of uncertainties with it. We don't know really what even the next day will look like, but God has been so good and faithful in that time to put people in my life to remind me that all of us live with this uncertainty, right, whether it's culture or politics. There are so many things uncertain in our life and yet God knows, god sees. None of this is a shock to him, and he already knows how we're going. None of this is a shock to him, and he already knows how we're going to make through each one of these circumstances.
Nancy Bruscher:Yeah, that's unbelievable that you would say that, yeah, you have three kids high school to first grade.
Carrie Gutierrez:First grade, yes, yeah, I mean young, yeah, yes.
Nancy Bruscher:Yes, oh, wow. So what does MS have you dealing with every day?
Carrie Gutierrez:That's an excellent question. I joke that there's a two-year-old driving the car in my brain and I really don't know what the two-year-old will do each day. Some days she throws a temper tantrum and they are hard. Some days are difficult for me to walk. Some days I'll get lost just going home because my brain struggles to recognize where I'm at, what's the next step. And then other days I seem fairly normal, I'll probably look like I'm functioning well, but there are always baseline symptoms that I have Nerve pain, I have tremors, tics, vision troubles, varying weakness in my extremities and just little things that sometimes you don't notice unless you spend a lot of time with me.
Nancy Bruscher:Yeah, like you said, you're going to the zoo tomorrow. How do you plan, not knowing how things are going to be going, or if you're going to kind of have a harder day or have a hard time focusing? How does that? How do you do that?
Carrie Gutierrez:That is an excellent question and one I am still learning to do. What I have learned and am learning to be more okay with is that it's okay to not be okay. So, for example, going to the zoo, I will take preventative measures and probably use a wheelchair. Which do I have to have a wheelchair to walk? No, but what I have learned is that if I overexert myself one day, I may pay for it for the next four or five days. So it's a discussion with my kids hey, this is what we're going to do to try and prevent things from being worse than they are currently, and my kids have been really great about learning that and learning what does it mean to have plans change? Right, maybe I wake up tomorrow and I can't even drive. Well, that's a whole other story. Then we do need to reschedule that. Or is there a friend who can maybe come with us? Just kind of learning how to pivot and be flexible with those things.
Nancy Bruscher:Yeah, how do you? You said you had to be in a wheelchair. How do you? Is that hard, Like emotionally hard?
Carrie Gutierrez:Yes, it's a pride thing for sure, which is hard for me to admit, but I have learned that I'm grateful that I have access to those things to begin with.
Carrie Gutierrez:For example, yesterday I had to use a cane for the first time in a year, which felt hard, but what I realized at the end of the day first time in a year, which felt hard, but what I realized at the end of the day is I actually felt better than I would normally. And the other thing I realized is that I'm so worried when people see me using those. What will they think of me? Will they think I'm less capable? Will they think that I'm lacking in some way? And what I've come to realize is that's not my identity. My identity is in the Lord, number one, and he tells me who I am, and number two, the people who care about me. They don't care about any of that and in fact, they're excited to see that I can take care of myself and that I value myself enough to take those measures. And so I've learned that it's okay to do all of those things and be okay with that.
Nancy Bruscher:Yeah, With your three kids. What is important that they see from you as you battle this disease? I don't know if that's the right word, but yeah, for sure, I think.
Carrie Gutierrez:For me there are two things I really want them to know. Number one every day we do have to surrender to the Lord because we don't know what today brings and that's true for lots of people in different circumstances. But he is faithful in that space and he does come through. It may not always be how we picture it to be or how we desire it, but he sees such a broader picture than we do that it really is the best way possible is his plan. And number two joy is a choice that we have to make every day. Happiness is an emotion that comes and goes and depends on our circumstances, but joy is firmly rooted in our foundation in Christ, and every day we need to make that choice, to be joyful through it.
Nancy Bruscher:And this is the part that I honestly that I struggle so much, sometimes with joy. So how, how do you do that?
Carrie Gutierrez:Well, before I answer that, I want to say a little caveat. I do want to honor people whose MS journey is very difficult. A lot of people from the get-go are in a wheelchair and begin to lose I mean, you can lose your vision, your ability to swallow, speak. There's a lot that can happen, and so I want to honor those really tough stories. And yet for me it's been such a blessing Like I mentioned before, I lived a very isolated life and so now having community in my life that they also reflect joy back to me and they allow me to walk through those really hard emotions with them, whether it's grieving a loss of something I used to be able to do, that I either can't do anymore or have to do differently, or those days where it does get in my identity and I forget that this does not define me.
Carrie Gutierrez:They point me right back to the Lord, and so I honestly don't think that, had I had this diagnosis, I honestly don't think I would have come to realize that community is this important, and so, because of that, this has been such a blessing to me and my family and caused so much joy because of the people in community that he has put in our lives. It's really hard not to wake up every morning and just smile to think about all these little things he's blessed us with.
Nancy Bruscher:Wow, what would you say to someone who is isolated?
Carrie Gutierrez:I would say relationships are scary yeah they are yes and there is uncertainty, and I can't make any guarantees that that won't be the case for you. But what I have found is the risk. The benefits outweigh so greatly the risk of it. People who are firmly rooted in God understand that we are built for community and they do have such a heart to love one another, and so if you are isolated or don't have community, I would definitely encourage you to find it, and find one that is firmly rooted in God, because it does have so many blessings.
Carrie Gutierrez:People come to me with things I don't even realize I need before they hit. Can I bring you a meal? Can I take your kids to school, recognizing when I'm tired? Before I even do? How can I help you and support you in this Everything to just? Can I help you carry that to? Somebody just yesterday made me a hot pack for when I have chest muscle spasms. That kind of helps with the pain with that. Just little things like that that it's so such a blessing to be on the receiving end of that.
Nancy Bruscher:I can't remember where I've heard it I think I've heard it several times but that we're hurt in community and we're healed in communities.
Carrie Gutierrez:That is such a beautiful way to put it and that would reflect my testimony. I have been on the hurt end multiple times and thought well, that's just how it is. But that for me, has been the best way over this last year to heal, because, while I do firmly believe that God is the answer, I also firmly believe that God puts people in our lives who reflect him well, so that when we are in times of uncertainty or do question things, we can come to them and ask them for advice, and he works through them to reflect back his love and his strength through them. And so I do believe that, while it is risky, it is definitely worth it.
Nancy Bruscher:Yeah, yeah, that's good.
Carrie Gutierrez:Are you?
Nancy Bruscher:scared.
Carrie Gutierrez:I think I have days where I do worry. I don't know if scared is the word anymore. Initially I definitely was. I think now I've come to a point where I understand that things will change probably, and there is a lot of uncertainty about it. But, god, in my testimony there has been other areas of hard times, uncertainties. God, I don't think we'll get through A, b, c. I've gone through divorce. I've gone through financial troubles, I've gone through a loss of parents and in those times I remember thinking, god, there's no way we'll make it through this. But God has proven himself so faithful that I can look back and watch as we walk through all those times and realize if he's gotten me through all of those, he will also get me through this, and that's why it's so amazing that we can trust a God who is quote unquote testable.
Carrie Gutierrez:You know he says that he is faithful and he has proven that to us time and time again.
Nancy Bruscher:Yeah, so sometimes going back and reminding yourself of what he's done in the past. Yes, and so he will do it in the future.
Carrie Gutierrez:Yes, yeah, I mean, we see it in the Bible, the altars in the wilderness Right and he says very many times remember remember Right.
Carrie Gutierrez:Remember where you've been, what I've brought you through, and it's true, because he does bring us through so many things. I'm a firm believer that we all have stories. We've all walked through things, yeah, and so I love what you're doing with the podcast, even because when I hear these stories of what other people are walking through, that inspires me and gives me hope and strength to walk through my walk and do it well and honor God through it.
Nancy Bruscher:Yes, that's my hope. Is that not only remembering our own story and what God's done, not only the Bible and what he's done? But oh, Carrie is doing this and she has this joy, you know, and that helps me to have joy. So, yes, exactly why we're doing what we're doing today.
Carrie Gutierrez:Yes, well, I'm so grateful that you were faithful to that call.
Nancy Bruscher:Oh, thank you. What would you say to someone facing their own uncertainty?
Carrie Gutierrez:I would say it is scary, and we do have uncertainty, all of us, in multiple areas of our life, whether it's health, relationships, look at culture and politics. There are so much that's uncertain. We all we have to do is watch the news for a couple minutes and there is a lot of uncertainty out there. Yeah, and I can't say that I have the answers, but I do trust in a God who does, and he doesn't always reveal them to me. In fact, most times he's smart enough to know. I don't need to know the answer, but that actually has begun to bring me great comfort to know I don't have to be in control and I don't have to know the answers, Because in my life, the times where I have tried to do things my way, it has always been harder than the times where I've just surrendered and said God, you show me where to go with this and on the other end, there's so much fruit through that and so many blessings through that.
Nancy Bruscher:Yeah, like I said, I think you're just so full of joy, like you said, how do you not get depressed, angry, blame God. I think that would be a really easy one, wouldn't it? I think you might have said it at the beginning, like why, why does this have to be my story? I already have this going on. God, I'm assuming that you go there sometimes. Yes, but how do you not get stuck there?
Carrie Gutierrez:That is a really great question and you are right in that there are times where I do fall in those spaces. What I love about the Bible, especially the book of Psalms, is it reflects lots of people's different emotions towards the Lord Anger, sadness, fear. There is happiness and joy. There's lament, and I love watching what God does with that. God accepts all of those emotions and is okay with it. In fact, he already knows what we're feeling, so there's no need to hide it from him.
Carrie Gutierrez:But it is important to not stay stuck in that. And again, this is where I'm going to go back to that word community. It is important to have people around you that you allow into those spaces of your life so that they can begin to recognize when you're are getting stuck in that area and say, hey, it's okay to be there and feel that and I'm going to walk alongside of you with it, but we're not going to stay here. You're not meant to stay here. We will move forward through it and I will be there with you and I will keep pointing you back to him through it.
Nancy Bruscher:and that's another reason why community is just so important to have in these times yeah, yeah, when people ask how you are, I feel like a lot of times, whenever we ask people how they are, people just say, fine, yes, do you do that, or are you a little bit more real? Or real with some people, or how does that work for you?
Carrie Gutierrez:I definitely think that's an area that God is still growing me in, and for a long time the first couple months of my journey with MS my answer was always fine. But what I realized is that doesn't honor where people are at in their life. Because if I'm walking through a tough time and people ask me how I'm doing and I say fine, but then I ask you how you're doing, knowing that you're going through something, it puts up this weird standard of you almost don't feel okay, saying that it's not okay. And it's absolutely okay to say you know, I am not okay.
Carrie Gutierrez:Today Things are rough, whether it's a relationship, health, something with your kids, it's absolutely okay. And as Christians we have to be more okay to say that and to be real with each other. So I am kind of learning what that looks like. It's a tough balance between I don't want to be the depressing person in the room where people are like, oh gosh, I don't want to ask Carrie, because I know she's got a lot going on. And yet I have learned that kind of like what you had referenced to with certain people. I can just give them the realities of everything where I'm at, because they have seen my journey long enough to know. Okay, that does sound hard, and yet Carrie is going to be. Okay, she is still close with the Lord.
Carrie Gutierrez:She will continue to be all right and then with other people, I do give kind of a more generalized answer of you know things are difficult today and yet I know tomorrow could be different, or just little things like that.
Nancy Bruscher:That just kind of give that.
Carrie Gutierrez:But that is definitely something that God is growing me in, that it's okay to say hey. It's not okay because I would want that from the people I love to be able to say you know what? It's not okay because I would want that from the people. I love to be able to say you know what it isn't okay and to hear more. So I have to reflect that.
Nancy Bruscher:well, if that's what I expect from you as well, right, because if I want to be able to walk alongside you, I would have to know what I can be praying for, what I could help you with. Like you said, like a chest thing? Oh, okay, then God puts it on my heart. I wasn't the person who made this. I'm saying I like it was me, but that the person who knew something was going on, then God could kind of prompt them to make that heating pad and things like that.
Carrie Gutierrez:Yes, yes, and the other reason that I am growing in that space is I've come to question why is it hard for me to say it's not okay and that goes back to? It's a pride issue, and God is continuing to remind me that's not who I've called you to be. I have called you to be encouraging, and you can't do that if you can't also speak honestly and open with people.
Nancy Bruscher:Yeah, oh, gosh, carrie, this has been so good. This has been so good.
Carrie Gutierrez:Thank you, Nancy. I'm so grateful for my time with you.
Nancy Bruscher:Well, I love ending with these three questions. What is your favorite Bible verse or story?
Carrie Gutierrez:My favorite Bible story is the story of Abraham and Isaac, where he's leading him up to sacrifice. I did not grow up in a Christian household, so I was not familiar with that story, and so the first time I read it, I remember thinking two things. Number one wow, abraham, why would you do that to your son? And number two if you are a loving God, why would you ask that of him? Why would you ask it?
Carrie Gutierrez:right, yes but after reading through the Bible and coming back to it, I quickly realized the answer is simple. Only a couple chapters before, god has promised Abraham that through his generations they would multiply and grow. So Abraham had enough faith in that promise to know nothing was going to happen to Isaac ever. And when I read the story again, I realized at least what's documented. Neither Abraham nor Isaac seem scared of that. They do. Isaac does ask about the sacrifice, and all Abraham says is God will provide, and they both seem to go up with the faith, knowing that I don't understand it right now, but God does and he will come through with his promises, and so that has been something that is big in my life. There are things that come up that I think, god, I feel like what you're asking me to do is not okay, and yet I trust in you and it it does work out, and it's because I have such a small understanding of the situation.
Nancy Bruscher:That's so good, that's so good. And I've been reading different versions and not versions different people's things on that, and one thing is is that a lot of different religions have practiced sacrificing of children, and I think this is one way that God ultimately says I am different than that. I am different than other religions. I am different than other quote-unquote gods who would ask something of you that I don't ask? That? Right, yes, I love that, yeah, that's so good. What kindness have you received or shown this?
Carrie Gutierrez:last week. Oh gosh, like I had mentioned before, so much. Every day there's a new person who shows kindness to our family. All the time. People are bringing meals, offering to help out with rides, you know, offering to pray for us, and which sounds cliche as a Christian, but prayer is so powerful, and so I really can't stress how important and how much that means to me that people are praying for us, which sounds cliche as a Christian but prayer is so powerful, and so I really can't stress how important and how much that means to me that people are praying for us.
Nancy Bruscher:Yeah, what are you grateful for?
Carrie Gutierrez:Wow, I am as crazy as it sounds. I am grateful for the story that God has given me of MS, because through it he has brought the blessing of community, which I just can't stress enough. How incredible that is to have people in your life who walk alongside of you through it and remind you you aren't alone.
Carrie Gutierrez:Not only is God through it, but I am here with you and I won't leave you in these spaces. And they do the same for my children, my children's faith, because they see that other people, who don't have to love them by blood, do care about them and do see them and reflect the Lord well to them. That brings up their faith and strengthens it as well, which, as a mom, that is the biggest blessing that I can see come out of this.
Nancy Bruscher:Wow, yeah. To say that you are grateful for this story is truly unbelievable.
Carrie Gutierrez:That is only God. That's the only way that's possible.
Nancy Bruscher:It is funny that I got asked a question and it was what question would you ask God? And I said why would you partner with people? We're so messed up. But then you hear this story and you're like, oh, this is why.
Carrie Gutierrez:Yes, and I used to be afraid to tell my story in my testimony. But what I came to realize is it's actually not my story, it is God's, and so it's actually an honor to be able to carry whatever story he has given me because he trusts me with it, and so when you think of it that way, it kind of changes your perspective.
Nancy Bruscher:Right, right. Well, Carrie, thanks for being on. Thanks for sharing your story. We will be praying, and I'm praying that someone who's listening is just really impacted by this to maybe switch something in their own lives.
Carrie Gutierrez:That would be. My hope is that through this, they would hear more about who God is and that he is trustworthy and faithful in these spaces.
Nancy Bruscher:Well, thanks for listening to Ordinary People Extraordinary Things, where your story is his glory. Thank you for joining Ordinary People Extraordinary Things. I hope that this podcast was impactful for you. I will see you in two weeks for a brand new episode of Faith and Hope. Don't forget to give us a five-star rating and write a review so that others can find Ordinary People, extraordinary Things.