Ordinary People Extraordinary Things

97. Jesus Before Bethlehem with Van Harden

• Nancy Bruscher • Season 7 • Episode 97

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Van Harden, former WHO radio host of 35 years, shares his journey of faith and insights from his book "Jesus, the Prequel." He explains how understanding Jesus' existence before Bethlehem transformed his perspective on scripture and deepened his relationship with Christ.

• Living faith authentically in secular radio without explicit rules
• Discovering Jesus in Old Testament "Christophanies" like the fourth person in the fiery furnace
• Finding Jesus from Genesis to Revelation changes how we read the entire Bible
• Seeing others as they were on their birth day helps love difficult people
• Circling and claiming God's promises throughout scripture
• Showing kindness by genuinely thanking people for their important work

Connect with Van 👇
https://www.vanharden.com/

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Nancy Bruscher:

I'm Nancy Brusher and you've found Ordinary People, Extraordinary Things Stories of ordinary people telling stories of hope, Real hope. We're in 50 countries. Thank you so much for sharing Ordinary People, Extraordinary Things. We are in every continent except for South America and Antarctica. Could you help us get the word out about Ordinary People, Extraordinary Things podcast? I'm asking if you would share the podcast with four people today. Four people today, so other people can find these stories of hope. Welcome to Ordinary People, Extraordinary Things. I'm so excited to have Van Harden on. Van, thank you for being on the podcast this morning.

Van Harden:

Well, I'm honored that you asked me to do it.

Nancy Bruscher:

And Van, if you've heard the name, it's possible that you're from Iowa, and I listened to you for 20 years. My mom listened to you, I believe your entire radio show time at WHO, and so you. I feel like I already know you because I've listened to you for so many mornings growing up.

Van Harden:

Well, that was really a fun job. I retired after 35 years of doing that morning show and getting up at 2.45 in the morning to drive in there to do it. Everybody said how in the world did you do that? And I didn't think a thing about it while I was doing it. But now that I'm retired I wonder how I did it too, because I don't think I could do it now.

Nancy Bruscher:

So you had Van and Connie and Van and Bonnie and I don't know. I just have all this nostalgia talking to you from kind of coming back to my childhood.

Van Harden:

Yeah, it's really fun to go out and about and people relive, they said hey, remember that time you did this or you said that, and sometimes I do and sometimes I don't, since it's been so long ago, but that's really the fun thing about it. I guess anybody that gets feedback on their work, especially when it's positive, that's pretty nice. But I've had more than my fair share of that and that's that's a blessing for me.

Nancy Bruscher:

Oh, that's so neat If people don't know who you are. Could you explain in three words or phrases?

Van Harden:

Well, in three words, okay, People say I'm creative because I make a lot of things out of nothing or I change things and use them. I've had a couple of inventions and I write books and I did creative radio programs. I know that I'm very curious and just there's so many things in life that drive me that I'm curious about, and you know, faith is one of them. That's why I started studying, because I was so curious. And then the other word out of three would be thankful. I'm just, I'm very thankful. God did all this. You and I wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for him, and I'm very thankful for that. I think of that all the time.

Nancy Bruscher:

That's really good. Yeah, I'm thankful that Darcy hooked us up and said, hey, Van might want to be on your podcast, and just that wonderful connection.

Van Harden:

Yeah, darcy is really. She's a creative, good one too. I really like her a lot. She's done a lot for the state of Iowa and other people, and so I'm like you, I'm glad she was our connection.

Nancy Bruscher:

Yes. So how did your faith in Jesus start?

Van Harden:

Well, I live in the house where I was born and raised and I'm the only person I know that's lived in the same house three times. I bought it back twice, oh really. But it's the oldest house in Adelaide 1851. And I remember when I was just a little kid, in my bedroom upstairs we have windows that go almost, but not all the way down to the floor, and I remember sitting on the floor at the window looking out the floor, and I remember sitting on the floor at the window looking out the window and I remember seeing the green trees and the green grass and the birds, and I don't know how old I was, but I was very young and I do remember thinking there is something very special going on here. I can't quite put my finger on what it is, but you know it was God and I think that was probably a pretty profound thought for as young as I was. But it wasn't until later that I got the chance to start putting all the pieces together. So I think that was my first recollections of God.

Van Harden:

My parents had me going to Sunday school every Sunday and we went to church and I heard about Jesus, but I don't think I really understood him until I read and studied the Bible and saw how life fit into that and it was I don't know. I had several slap my hand on my forehead moments thinking back. Oh that's kind of like what they were talking about when I was a kid, when I was in Sunday school or whatever. I accepted him later on in life and boy, that's just made a world of difference for me and I guess the big thing that really has helped me a lot is I've been an adult Bible teacher for 45 years.

Nancy Bruscher:

Oh, wow.

Van Harden:

And so it's funny because in all those years sometimes I teach the same books over, like I've got one going. Now I'm studying the book of John, and so I got my notes out from the last time I taught it and there were some notes on there that said something about is that still true in 1987? And I thought, man, and of course, as you probably know, every time you read the Bible you may see something new or different, or something that strikes you, that hits you a little different than the last time you did it. I have just found the Bible to be the owner's manual to my new life, and I don't know how I got along without it before that. It's just, that's how important it is.

Nancy Bruscher:

When did you say you kind of accepted Christ?

Van Harden:

Well, let's see. I was working at a radio station in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Nancy Bruscher:

Okay, and.

Van Harden:

I was in an apartment and I think that would have been about 1974.

Nancy Bruscher:

Okay, now, when I was listening to you on the radio, I don't remember it being a Christian thing. I don't know that it wasn't terribly against Christianity, but I don't really remember a lot of things coming on. Is that true? Were you allowed to talk about your faith? Things coming on, is that true? Were you allowed to talk about your faith? Or? My question is is, if you were great, but if you're not really, how do you still show those qualities?

Van Harden:

well, they never told me what I could or could not say about that. I always hinted or tried to mirror my faith as I was on the radio. But, as you rightly pointed out, it was not a Christian radio station and as time went on I got offered a number of jobs at Christian radio stations and I thought about it and I thought you know, my congregation is bigger here and I'm not just preaching to the choir because there's a lot of new people that aren't Christians. And I would go out and about many places and people would stop me and say, hey, van, you're a Christian, aren't you? I said yeah. They said we could tell by the things you say and the things that you don't say. So I thought that was.

Van Harden:

I think God put me in the right place and I'm sure I would have enjoyed Christian radio as well. But it was really fun to go out and you know, different groups Christian and non-Christian and companies asked me to come speak to their company, and I never speak anywhere that I don't get the gospel in. I mean, that's the one thing that I insist on doing. I don't tell them that, but they find it out afterwards and they're usually happy that I did it that way. So that's kind of that was. I had a lot of people ask me that they give you rules on what you can say and you know something. If they would have, I probably wouldn't have worked there. You know, I could have talked about Jesus a lot, but they would have kicked me off the earth. There's no doubt about that. So you'd like to be around to fight the next battle. So I witnessed in a way that kept me on the earth.

Nancy Bruscher:

Yeah, and I think that points to not only saying something about Jesus but also living it out, and I think that when you live it out, then it becomes evident.

Van Harden:

Absolutely so, and that's isn't that what we're supposed to do. I mean, I have the chance to teach Jesus in my Bible teachings, but I had a chance to bait the hook for those that weren't Christians when I was on the secular radio station.

Nancy Bruscher:

Right, right. And then, like you said, I'm sure you had so many different appearances. I remember meeting you at the Iowa State Fair one year, so I'm sure that also gives you those opportunities right to be the hands and feet and to talk to people one-on-one and for them to see that you're kind and loving and feet and to talk to people one-on-one and for them to see that you're kind and loving and patient, and all of these things.

Van Harden:

Yeah, and you know something people always and they still do they treat me like I'm somebody special and I'm not. I'm just a guy who was a radio announcer and I write and speak, but I love the Lord and if there's anything special about me, that's where it comes from. It's not because of me, but everybody's special. If they were born, they're special. God had a hand in that, obviously.

Nancy Bruscher:

Yeah, how did you discern whether or not to take those jobs? I know that that's a question that gets asked a lot is how do I hear God's voice? How do I know what to do those jobs? I know that that's a question that gets asked a lot is how do I hear God's voice? How do I know what to do? How do I know if I take this or not take this?

Van Harden:

Yeah, that's a good question, Cause I had a. I had a lot of times when I mean I said, okay, god, I'm looking through the Bible and I don't see where it says, yeah, van, go ahead and take that job in Detroit. But you, you know, I've always prayed every morning God, show me, tell me, send me, show me what you got for me, tell me what to do and send me out to do it. And so my question myself was all right, if I go to Detroit, is that going to help me with that? Is that what God's getting to here or not?

Van Harden:

And there was one job that I actually I was within an eyelash of taking it. It was in Minneapolis, a big radio station in Minneapolis, and they had the contract written and everything was all done. All I had to do was put my name, sign my name, on the contract written and everything was all done. All I had to do was put my name, sign my name, on the contract. And so I went to my boss at WHO and I said now, you know I'm not the kind of person that plays one person against another, but I've just got to tell you what's happened. This big station wants me to work for them and I brought the contract along so you could see it, and I said I guess I'm going to sign it and go and he said nope, you're not going, you're staying here. And so they matched what I was going to be making and I didn't do it.

Van Harden:

For that reason I didn't really think about that. Situations a lot of times tell you what God is thinking for you and you have to be careful with that because, like I say, it's not black and white in the Bible but, along with the Holy Spirit, the situation a lot of times. God speaks to us through our situations many, many times. But you always should check that with the Bible to do the best you can and with the Holy Spirit to determine. Yeah, I think this is right.

Nancy Bruscher:

Yeah.

Van Harden:

Oh, that's good.

Nancy Bruscher:

Thank you. Your website says that you're driven by loving God and people. What does that mean to you and how do you live it out?

Van Harden:

In Colossians it says and it's talking about the word of God, which is Jesus. It says everything was made through him and for him. So, in other words, in your life, if you wrote down a list of the top 10 most important things in your life, or things that you love, and you looked at that list, and then you ask yourself where did those come from? And then you look at that verse in Colossians, well, they came from the Word of God, jesus Christ, and so did your own life. So, therefore, what percentage of your life do you owe to the Word of God? And I asked this in my Sunday school class and every single time they all say 100%. I said that's exactly right. You and I wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for that.

Van Harden:

And then the amazing thing is that that's before we even get around to talking to what happened on the cross and the salvation story. So he created you. You owe 100% of your life to him. And then, when you get to that new thing for your new life now, what percentage do you owe to him? 200%, no, there's no number big enough. So that's why I've come to love God. And as far as loving others are concerned, for some reason, when I look at people, I can almost see them on the day they were born as a little baby. And you don't think of that very often. Sometimes you think of somebody as a cranky old man or woman or something. But you know there was a day they were born and God gave them that life and even when they're hard to love, I think you just got to love them. You really do, because if they're good enough for God, they're good enough for me.

Nancy Bruscher:

That's good. I think that that's somewhat easy to say but very difficult to live out.

Van Harden:

Yes, yeah, we had one guy at work that, and he was a Christian, but he just drove me crazy and I'd have to pray every day. Help me with him.

Nancy Bruscher:

God.

Van Harden:

And and it was easier because he was a Christian. But you're right, and a lot of times when you were supposed to love one another, you'd have a tendency to say, yeah, but God, you don't know about Fred and what he is like. Of course he does. He made Fred, you know, right? That's interesting.

Nancy Bruscher:

I have never heard of anyone saying I've heard of people saying see them the way God sees them, but this new perspective of seeing them when they were born or really really young is that's really an interesting perspective.

Van Harden:

Yeah, that's true.

Nancy Bruscher:

What prompted you to?

Van Harden:

write your book Jesus, the Prequel. Okay, I'm glad you asked that, because I'm not very often critical of the church and I try not to be. But what I have noticed is that the church Universal, I think, has done a pretty good job about teaching 33 years, the 33 years that Jesus was on earth from Bethlehem to ascension. I mean, even when we were all little kids, we were learning about, you know, jesus and what he did and all that. So that's fine. But I was distressed to find out a lot of people didn't know Jesus exists before Bethlehem, and I've taught that a lot. And that's, you know, in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God. So what's the beginning? Well, it's the beginning of everything, and so that's an eternity before those 33 years ever even started. So, nancy, I would say this If somebody told you a story, do you want them to tell you the story again from the beginning, or would you rather have them start in the middle?

Nancy Bruscher:

Right. It's confusing when you start in the middle.

Van Harden:

Yeah, it is. In fact it's funny. You said that because I know my kids. When they were little, I used to read them bedtime stories. I'd get in the bed with them and read them a bedtime story before they went to sleep, and it was hard for me because getting up at 2.45, I was already sleepy, and so I'd try to skip a page or two, you know, and they'd always catch me at it. They'd always catch me.

Van Harden:

Half of the story is not good and it's not right, and I just feel like maybe the church has not done a very good job of teaching Jesus from the beginning rather than starting at Bethlehem. And since I've written this, I've had people tell me wow, I've never heard any of this, and there's a lot of it. I didn't hear either, and I know some people that look at Jesus almost like Santa Claus. He showed up at Bethlehem and he did good things and he brought some gifts and he went away and and there, there's more to him than that. And so what I did was a couple of things. Number one I looked at what they call christophanies. Yep, a christophany is, uh, a supposed appearance of christ before he was ever born in bethlehem, and you can find him. I mean, people say, well, jesus isn't in the Old Testament, he's all over the Old Testament, if you really look. They didn't call him Jesus because that name didn't even exist until the angel came to Joseph and Mary and said hey, you're going to have a baby and here's what you're going to name him. Name him Jesus.

Van Harden:

There's a number of instances. I guess the one that's most famous that people talk about is Shadrach, meshach and Abednego in the fiery furnace, when the king says all right, everybody in the country, you're going to bow down and worship this God that I made. And the three young boys said we're not doing that. We have our God and we will not betray him and we will not worship your God. And it really made the king mad and he had this fiery furnace and he said anybody that doesn't do this, I'm throwing them in the furnace. And he was so mad at those guys that he turned the furnace up like seven times as hot as it normally was. It was so hot that his people, those workers, picked up the guys and went to throw them in and some of them died just getting close to the furnace. That's how hot it was. So they threw them in the furnace and they shut the door and the king and his vitriol wanted to go enjoy what he was doing. He went over to the window of the furnace and he looked in and he says hey guys, didn't we throw three guys in there? Oh, yes, king, we threw three guys in. Well, I see four, I see another one, and the other one looks like the angel of God, and so he said shut it down, shut it down, and they let the guys out. And the guys come out. They have no singed hair, their clothing is not burned, they don't smell like smoke, and the three of them came out. Now the question is who was that fourth person in the fire?

Van Harden:

After I've done this study, my own personal belief is that it was the pre-incarnate Jesus. I can't prove that because it doesn't say so in black and white, but we know this that it was a Savior and that he was with them in times of trouble, and Jesus was a Savior. And Jesus is with us in times of trouble. And Jesus was a savior, and Jesus is with us in times of trouble. And so that's just one of the many that I found that I wrote about in there, and then that was the one angle I took, and the other angle I took was in the New Testament, jesus actually talks about when, before he was born in Bethlehem and when he was with the Father in the beginning and the love that they had for one another, and so I sifted out all of those quotes that he talks about the good old days.

Van Harden:

You know, when you get together with your family, what do you talk about?

Van Harden:

You talk about days earlier, and Jesus did that with the Father too.

Van Harden:

I try to combine those things and show people, and the reason that this has meant so much to me is I've often wondered if this whole Christianity thing is as good as we say it is and it is then why isn't everyone flocking to it then? Why isn't everyone flocking to it? And there's a lot of reasons for that, but one of mine I I'm firmly convinced that even people that say they know jesus may not know exactly who he is. They knew about the 33 years, but I've found it through this study. I've learned so much about him before Bethlehem that now when I go to the Gospels and read it, it's like I got a whole new pair of glasses looking at Jesus as he was on earth, because I know about his past and I know what he did and I know who he was and I want people to have that same pair of glasses. So I guess you could say that's what this book is. It's a pair of glasses for people to really see the real Jesus.

Nancy Bruscher:

Well, and I think that a lot of people have this disconnect with the old Testament and the new Testament and and I I believe, once you dig in, like you're saying, then the Old Testament becomes more loving and you see it in a whole different way and you see all these connections of Jesus talking about Old Testament all the time, he's always referring back to it, and so more of the love for the whole Bible and not just okay, I'm just going to focus on this that's easier.

Van Harden:

Yep, absolutely right. I think that the New Testament is the fulfillment of the Old Testament. They go hand in hand, they go together. That's why they're in the same book. I don't know. Know, I've had a few people challenge me on a few things. Well, the bible conflicts itself and they'll bring up certain things and you know I can show them and I just if you cross reference enough. It doesn't conflict with itself, it supports itself and to me is exciting, especially when you see, you know, isaiah talking about Jesus 700 years before he was even born, and all the details that he gets exactly perfectly right. I mean, that's not coincidence, it can't be coincidence, it's just a sign of truth, right?

Nancy Bruscher:

It's just a sign of truth, Right? Well, John begins his book of the Bible with in the beginning, and he's referencing the word of God and Genesis and Jesus. So that's an easy connection, I feel like.

Van Harden:

Absolutely. You lay John 1 over Genesis 1, and you've got quite a thing there. And you got quite a thing there. You, you have all three persons of the of, uh, the trinity, all there at the same time together, when, in the beginning, the beginning of what? Well, the beginning of the bible is the beginning of the world, the end of the bible is the end of that world in the new world. So in the beginning was who knows how long before the world was even created, before we had time, and I've said that before. I said before we had time. Yeah, there was no sun. That's how we keep our time is by the sun. So this gets very profound as you look at it closely.

Nancy Bruscher:

Do you believe that Jesus was there at the Exodus? Was he the angel that came through on the Passover and slaughtered the firstborn that didn't have the blood on the doorpost?

Van Harden:

You know it's hard for me to say because I try not to teach anything that I can't prove word for word in the Bible and it doesn't say that word for word in the Bible. And it doesn't say that word for word in the Bible. But the answer to your question is yes. And how about Moses and the burning bush? And you know there's others in the book that I've pointed out that it doesn't say that, but all the clues are there.

Nancy Bruscher:

Right, they kind of reference in the same way, or one way I've started to see it is when someone worships the angel of the Lord and he allows worship, that to me is a big sign. That is Jesus, because other places in the Bible the angels will not accept worship.

Van Harden:

Yes, in fact I think you hit on something there, because, like in Shadrach, meshach and Abednego, the king says he looks like the angel of the Lord, and in the Old Testament you will see that phrase from time to time the angel of the Lord. But once Jesus is born, in the New Testament you will never see that phrase again. You'll see an angel of the Lord. So to me, I think the angel of the Lord was the pre-incarnate Jesus.

Nancy Bruscher:

Yeah, I would agree with you. Yeah, but you have to really dive in right, because those are the word the, and a or an and yeah why not just gloss over it?

Van Harden:

but there's so much richness and oh yeah really diving in one that really blew me away was I used to hate the book of job, and you know. You can tell why, because you know this poor guy's going through stuff that you know if I was god he wouldn't have to do that. But I'm not, and you're lucky, I'm not he. He's going through all this stuff, and we know why because the first two chapters tell about God allowing it to happen after his conversation with Satan, and so that's why it happened. But Job's so-called friends spent like 34 chapters telling him you did something wrong. You must have, you got to admit it, you got to come clean, and God sat there and listened to that for all those chapters. And then finally and I don't know 37 or 38 or something, he says all right, guys, who formed the boundaries of the water? Who puts the wind under the wings of the birds?

Van Harden:

And he goes on for several chapters, asking all these questions that the answer could only be god, and he doesn't really tell him. Well, here's why job's having some problems. He's telling them just trust me, I'm God and I did all these things, and I know best, even though it doesn't always seem best. And so I think that's a great message to each one of us you and I go through things we don't want to go through. We go through things that maybe don't seem fair, and you could ask why, why? Why?

Van Harden:

Well, get out the 38th chapter of Job and just read it and it kind of puts us in our place. You know, we are his and he is smarter than we are and he knows what's right, and so, and the one thing about Job that really blew me away and I should have got it out so I could have had it for this conversation but there's one part in there, when he's asking all these questions about who did this, who did this, who did this, it says something to the effect were you there with the mule in my? And I thought, whoa, I've never seen that before and I thought that that's almost.

Van Harden:

That's almost like jesus is saying that you know, and those are not the exact words, but it's something to that effect yeah, where he's he's doing another thing, where he's showing you in advance of what he's going to do, yeah. Yeah.

Nancy Bruscher:

Yeah, so interesting. Do you get into Revelations or Revelation, or do you stay with the Old Testament more in your book?

Van Harden:

I've taught Revelation, I think seven times. I mentioned you know where we seem to be and what's going to happen, and I just stopped and said you know, you got hundreds and thousands of other people writing you what they think about that and I just think I haven't heard anybody talking about the pre-existence of Jesus. So at least in this book I'm sticking with that.

Nancy Bruscher:

Yeah, no, no, that's good. The revelation can get a little. Everyone likes their part and they want, they want to know the information, but the idea that Jesus is there from the very first page to the very last page, yeah.

Van Harden:

Yeah, I had. I've had several other pastors that I'm not a pastor, but I've had some pastors that heard that I have taught Revelation and they said what suggestions can you give me Because I'm going to teach it? And I always tell them the same thing. I say teach what it says and not what it doesn't say. All sorts of people taking all sorts of things out of there and, you know, manipulating it to say what they'd like it to say, what they want it to say, and so I I just try to be very careful when I teach the bible no, I, yeah.

Nancy Bruscher:

I mean. This says that you should right that there's, that there's consequences for yeah, not for adding to it or for subtracting from it.

Van Harden:

In revelation it says you they will get the uh consequences that have been listed in this book, which I don't want.

Nancy Bruscher:

That yeah, those are heavy, those are yeah, what do you hope people learn from your book?

Van Harden:

I want them to, uh, think more about Jesus, as you just said, from beginning, from the very beginning, rather than just. You know, here's a character that showed up in the Bible, like Jonah, or, you know, all the other people that we learned about in Sunday school class, that we learned about in Sunday school class, and that what do they owe him? You know? Do they understand that if it weren't for him, they wouldn't be here at all? And if so, how thankful are they for that? You know, it seems to me like we ought to be on our knees all the time, because this Jesus was the one that the Father used him to create us and we wouldn't even be here without him, and that he said he would never, ever leave us, just like the boys in the fiery furnace. And if he says that, that's true, I've often, whenever I teach a Bible class, I have people circle when we read a promise and I said that is a promise.

Van Harden:

This is not a promise from a Republican or a Democrat or a politician, it's a promise from God. So, circle that, that's job one and number two claim it. If God gives you a promise, then it's a good promise. Claim it, so I hope people will claim things in this book as well.

Nancy Bruscher:

Is there one that you can think of just off the top of your head, of the promise and to claim it?

Van Harden:

I don't have my Bible in front of me but I hit one in John as I was preparing for my class and I don't remember now what it is, but boy, they're all over the Bible. I mean, that would be a great study for somebody. If they're depressed, go through, you know, name the book. Go through a book and circle the promises that are in there, because they are.

Nancy Bruscher:

Yeah, no, that's a good point. That's a good point. Well, I have really loved our chat. Thank you so much.

Van Harden:

Well, thank you. I'm honored that you even asked me to do it, so be sure to say hi to your mother.

Nancy Bruscher:

Hi Luann, While we're wrapping up, I always like to end with these few questions. What is your favorite Bible verse or story?

Van Harden:

My favorite Bible verse and people say, oh, you just like it because it's short. Now, my favorite Bible verse is in 1 Thessalonians pray without ceasing. And they say, well, why would that be your favorite Bible verse? I said because that's my goal in life. If I could do that, I would be connected emotionally and spiritually with God all the time. Well, you can't pray when you're driving a car. Yes, you can. You can pray anytime. Pray without ceasing. So I catch myself going long periods of time without praying and I said you're not doing what you said you do. Do you believe that or not? Pray without ceasing. Well, it's important. So that's my favorite Bible verse. Is that an answer to your question?

Nancy Bruscher:

Yeah, it's a great one. I thought you might go with he wept to the very, very shortest. When you said that someone said you just like it because it's short, I would my, my son's favorite one right now is he wept because it's two words yeah, well, my, it's funny because my one of my sons was one of them that said you just like it because it's short.

Van Harden:

And I told him yeah, mr Jesus wept, that's the one he picked for his Christian school, you know? Yeah, exactly exactly.

Nancy Bruscher:

What are you grateful for?

Van Harden:

I'm just grateful for being alive and that God put me together the way he does, and that I guess I'm grateful for the word times to the word Jesus Christ, so I can be with him forever, and the word the Bible in black and white man. Those two put together, that's a blockbuster combination. It really is. I God didn't have to make a Bible, he didn't. He could have just had us out here on our own. He decided to give us some guidance in what I call the owner's manual of life. That doesn't mean you're going to understand it all, it doesn't mean you can fulfill it all, but it's there for you if you really love God that much. And I think that after people study, especially in the prequel about Jesus before Bethlehem, I think they're going to love him even more and that will bring more people to Christ. It'll bring more people to Christ and it'll bring people that thought they knew Christ even closer to him. Yeah, so that's what I'm thankful for.

Nancy Bruscher:

Oh, I love that. What kindness have you received in the last week or what kindness have you shown?

Van Harden:

I'm amazed, when I go out and about, the compliments and encouragements I get on a lot of things my radio program, my Bible teaching, my writing and boy, that's just like fuel in the tank. When you hear something like that, you know you think yeah, well, maybe this does make a difference. So those are kindnesses I receive, I guess the kindness that I try to give.

Van Harden:

When I go out and about and I see people doing their jobs, whether it's the Department of Transportation or the burger place or whatever, I see a lot of people that you can just tell that they're not real thrilled about being there. They just do their job through drudgery. And I almost always try to stop and said say to them hey, I'll bet not many people tell you this, but you really are doing something important here. And on behalf of all the other people that never say it, I just want to say thank you, and it's amazing how their demeanor changes in something like that. And I I don't do it just to try to get their attention and make them smile, although it does. I do it because I think that, uh, they need some fuel in their tank too right, right.

Van Harden:

Yeah, we were at the pharmacy yesterday and I was just looking around and I thought I don't know if I've seen more of a depressed place in such a long time yeah, oh, absolutely, and I go to the doctor from time to time and you know there's uh, I have to orbit the building several times even to find a parking space, and then you get in there and you see just exactly what you just mentioned. I mean, people are not wild about being there, but they need some uplifting oh, that's such a good reminder, thank you you bet well, I've loved our conversation.

Nancy Bruscher:

I am going to link your book and your website in the show notes so that people can find you, and I'm praying that. Some people are saying well, I thought I heard that, but I didn't really know how to learn more information, or I have never heard anything like this and it's just, you know, popping off little things in their brain of I really want to learn more about this.

Van Harden:

Yeah.

Nancy Bruscher:

Thank you for your time. I really enjoyed our conversation today Van.

Van Harden:

Yeah, thank you for doing this. I don't know how you decided to do what you're doing with so many people, but you know, I looked at it and I thought that is good. That is uplifting. We need more of that.

Nancy Bruscher:

Thank you, I appreciate that Well. At Ordinary People, extraordinary Things your story is his glory.

Van Harden:

Yeah, absolutely.

Nancy Bruscher:

Thank you so much for listening. I hope that this podcast with Van has been inspiring for you. In two weeks, I get to talk to Rachel and we get to talk about money, tithing and generosity. What a great conversation. As the tax season approaches, as I said earlier, please share this podcast with four people today, right now. Please do it so that others can find ordinary people, extraordinary things and find the hope that they need in their lives.